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Old 09-30-2008, 10:32 PM
 
17 posts, read 50,768 times
Reputation: 33

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Becoming angry at the people who move into the state from CA and elsewhere is ill-conceived and is pretty much a typical anti-gentrification argument that one would typically see voiced by residents of failed urban neighborhoods in major cities as the 'yuppies' move in.

Here's a thought to ponder-- I am a graduate of a class AA montanan school. I also happened to be the valedictorian who graduate in three years, immediately moved to Europe at 17, and then came back to get an ivy league education and settle on the east coast. Staying in MT was never even considered an option for me personally or my family. Further, I don't know a single person I went to school with who remained in the state. The only person I know still in the state is my brother, who only remained because he had a little crystal meth problem--how very late 90's. Based upon alumni directories, in fact, a full 70% of graduates of my school from the LAST 30 YEARS had out of state addresses.

Why? Because Montana, like many remote rural areas, has typically offered very little in the way of economic or cultural opportunity. And like most rural northern states, there is a long history a brain drain of home-grown tallent and bodies far away from state borders. So the state is pretty much left to grow older and poorer as its young flee.

By the time I graduated from high school ten years ago, the problem was so bad in fact that Montana boasted the lowest average income in the country despite offering one of the finest public education sytems of any state.

'Locals' need to stop being affraid of 'new comers' and realize that they are in fact the state's lifeline. Montana has the rare benefit of being exceptionally beautiful and offering resort-style living in 'real world' small cities and towns. And this beauty means that new blood is flowing into the state and breathing new life into the economy and its institutions. I can guarantee that South Dakota would love to have the influx of families and capital that Montana is experiencing. For while SD and MT looked a lot like each other economically and demographically for much of the 20th century, look for MT to pull away in the 21st century.

Are there problems of integrating new poluations and cultures into Montana's relatively homogonous 'native-born' (anglo) population? Of course. But guess what--that's called life. There are almost no completely stable populations anywhere in the world and most of human development is the product of intermingling populations.

If you are upset about the price of land in Bozeman, I would suggest that you look toward any number of extremely affordable and still relatively attractive locales throughout the state such as Great Falls and Butte. I choose to move to Philadelphia five years ago instead of NYC because I found most of what I was looking for in Phila for 1/3rd the price of NYC while offering basically the same earnings potential. Now that philadelphia is thriving and NYC is stalling, that bet paid off.

In terms of Bozeman, I'm actually starting to feel like all of the influx of educated outsiders (with educated 'insiders' running to the coasts) might actuallly make it possible for me to move BACK to montana and bring a very nice company with me ready to offer a fair number of the high-paying professional jobs which are generally so hard to come by in Montana.

Instead of investing so much energy into feeling victimized, I would suggest that you look at the situation for opportunity. If you are struggling personally--do something about it. Move to Texas for awhile and live cheaply with no taxes and high incomes. (Best Cities to Live, Work and Play - Kiplinger.com) Make money and come back if you want! That's what I'm trying to do. And at the risk of sounding like an ass, selling my townhouse out here for $2m and buying twenty acres in the Bridger canyon sure feels good and my parents (still in MT) couldn't be prouder.

By spending SO much time whining, I hate to say that many montanan's are adapting the most annoying 'outsider' trait of all.
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Old 10-01-2008, 06:28 AM
 
Location: In The Outland
6,023 posts, read 11,870,919 times
Reputation: 3535
Well I've been in Montana for over ten years and I rarely here any real people wining about outsiders at all ! I think the whining is really on this board for the most part. Most of my neighbors were born and raised here and they seem to all want to see better eateries and better and closer shops. New people and businesses are generally welcomed. I know only of one semi newcomer who was rejected by the folks in our town because he went overboard with trying to make radical changes in our towns government. Folks who want to live angry will find something to be angry about. Many towns in central and eastern Montana are shrinking in population and newcomers are getting the red carpet treatment.
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:05 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,459,897 times
Reputation: 15488
The only time I hear people whine about CA,WA etc is when something they don't like or agree with happens no matter if it's a "local" or not that caused it.
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,571,634 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by moritz391 View Post
If you dug down a little bit, you'd probably notice that the after there is a lot of southern culture in montana--even down to the accents of some of the older generations.
Makes sense...

Used to hear distinctly down-home western drawls in eastern MT... rather like an Appalachian accent with some Texas seasoning.

Fella here who sometimes did odd jobs for me is from rural Alabama... you could drop him onto any eastern MT small town or ranch and he'd be right at home!
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Old 10-01-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,571,634 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Doer View Post
I sold the same products in California as I did in Montana at prices LESS than those in Montana, and at a similar volume. The California employer had higher overhead such as real estate two to three times that of Montana. The MT employer I worked for was simply getting rich. The two partners there are two of the most "well to do" individuals in Montana.
There's always a few like that, but most of the time it's not so. In most small businesses, the boss gets paid last if at all.

California has an economics of scale and more competition simply due to the large population, and unskilled (usually illegal) labour can be had for a pittance. If MT had 40 times its current pop, it would happen there too.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:42 AM
 
2 posts, read 4,864 times
Reputation: 10
Default Montana Re-Location

My son and I re-located from Nevada to Whitefish.
This is a great town, with great schools and friendly people.
Like any place it takes a while to fit in, being friendly and polite to the locals is the trick.
We came to Montana to get away from the urban life we led and couldn't be happier with the small town morals and values Whitefish offers.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Livingston, Montana
638 posts, read 1,719,578 times
Reputation: 466
This is directed at Moronitz.

Sorry hun but I was born and raised Californian (northern, Sacramento area). I loved my state throughout my childhood. That was a great state to be raised in. As I got older and older the California of my childhood was far from the same. People became arrogant, liberal, obnoxious and holier than though. Not counting the illegals that have inundated that state. I couldn't find my way out fast enough. Moved to Reno for a year and in turned me and the hubby were dying to move to Montana and hit it lucky and a printing company offered my hubby a good job here.

Coming from California I can tell you the ignorance I have seen from Californians coming here. I see them first hand (and I can guarantee you MANY of them are from SoCal). We had to go to SoCal to pick up my MIL after my FIL passed away. That is the biggest crap hole I have ever had the misfortune of going to. WE couldn't get out soon enough. The people, the air, the land, the prices.. Blow that crap hole up!!

Where I live we want to keep it small. It's a nice small town that I would prefer people think is decrepit, people are ignorant etc. That way they don't want to move here. Unfortunately this is a tourist town so we get so many out of staters here it makes me ill. When we visited we were respectful of anyone w/Montana plates, after all this is their home.

Now living here for 2 years it seems that respect is very short lived by tourists in OUR town. Most are California plates (but Colorado and TExas are just as obnoxious).

And btw.. I HAVE lived in Texas for 2 years (Killeen).. Recommending people move there?? Outside of Calif that is one crappy state. Hell look what they breed!!! The village idiot that stole the White House.

So basically as a former out of stater that has decided to live our lives the Montana way.. yea Californians (amongst some others) and jackoffs. I would like everyone to believe Montana is backwards and rednecks and stay the HELL OUT!!

Rant done
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:27 PM
 
Location: West Yellowstone, MT
239 posts, read 608,918 times
Reputation: 127
You seem to have issues with people where ever you have been. Now you come to Montana and start having problems with those from out-of-state and soon you will have problems with us. Maybe the real problem is......I will let you figure that out.

Just stop the hate.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:54 PM
 
17 posts, read 50,768 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinCarl View Post
This is directed at Moronitz.

Rant done

Gee.. thanks. My great grand parents electrified SW Montana, My grandfather was a state republican party leader, my grandmother and cousins were rodeo queens, I personally have represented Montana nationally both athletically and academically and in international competition. And I don't have a single non-native direct relative except one great grand parent in four generations. But thank you for explaining the state and the people to me.

And for someone complaining about 'holier than thou' attitudes and open hostility, you sure seem to embody them both.

Just for clarification, being open minded to personal differences and caring for the environment are very much Montanan values. Montana elected the first woman to congress before women were even allowed to vote and was easily one of the most prosperous states in the union prior to the 1960's. I also take huge issue with the notion that there is some sort of war on-going between Montanans (don't count yourself as one, please, because you don't exercise the respect or decency to take the lable) and out-of-staters. Not too long ago, I spent my summers living with my grandmother in a very small town on scenic highway 89. She often worked at my uncle's general store and gas station and I spent many a day off from mowing lawns playing cribage with her. I have never had such nice conversations with the people who came through--many of whom had distant connections to our little town. When we weren't at the store, we would often have random vistors stop by the house for a glass of iced sun tea. Especially when bikers pedalling their way across country would drive by, we would invite them to stop and have a chat. I met some of the most interesting and wonderful people-- many from CA and many from Europe-- this way and it eventually inspired me to live abroad for a bit myself.

Your vision of Monana is hateful and sad.

And you are going to compare Kileen to Houston? Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense. You can't compare some creationist backwater to the seat of the global energy industry. I was simply saying that the poster should try seeking out a more competitive job market and then look to return home with a little change in his pocket if he felt under such great economic pressure. That being said, there are decent jobs in Montana if you look and there are great places to live affordably as long as you avoid the most expensive spots.

You just seem nasty. From the sound of it, though, you'll probably decide you hate Montana, too, before too long and move off to your next stomping ground soon enough..

Last edited by moritz391; 10-07-2008 at 12:10 AM..
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Livingston, Montana
638 posts, read 1,719,578 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Doer View Post
You seem to have issues with people where ever you have been. Now you come to Montana and start having problems with those from out-of-state and soon you will have problems with us. Maybe the real problem is......I will let you figure that out.

Just stop the hate.
LOL actually no I don't. I loved the people I worked w/in Reno and Sacramento but I hate the areas, crowds, traffic, rude obnoxious people who think their issues in life are more important and dramatic than yours and you better get the hell out of their way.

In montana no such thing (at least where I live) People will wave to you if you are sitting on your porch our just out driving and not even know you. MUCH, MUCH, MUCH friendlier than Reno and MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH, MUCH friendlier than Californians. I'm anti Californians coming her bringing their arrogance and obnoxiousness w/them and assume we should bow before them. I don't want my area to change to becaome that. That's why we left.

Only issue about where I live is they are pretty liberal, tree huggers. Kid gets caught shoplifting, vandalizing whatever and it's a slap on the hand and "bad boy/girl don't do that again.. Now here's a hug" Takes some getting use to.
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