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OK, I am going to have to weigh in on this, probably against my better judgement.
I have read this string right from the start. Some posts are very accurate, some have no connection to reality. Same as any board.
My pedigree, (seems to be important on this board for some reason) is that I am 5th generation Montanan.
Did I leave the state? Yes, US NAVY. I saw a good portion of the world. Most of it didn't impress me.
Am I a landowner, no. I was raised on a ranch near Bozeman. The area sold to developments and the taxes increased to levels beyond what the land could produce to pay. I do own a small house, pay a mortgage, and am happy to have a job that for Montana is pretty good, I make a little over 30,000 a year. Far better than a large segment of the population.
Montanan's won't stand up for themselves, boy, is THAT hogwash. Most of the old Montanan's are very polite people. When some loudmouth starts shouting in your face and making a fool of themselves, dropping the f-bomb more often than any other word, Most will not find it amusing, or a joke, they decide that if a person has that little intellegence, why argue? Talking to them is a lot like teaching a pig to sing. It can't be done, and just irratates the pig, so why waste energy?
Will outsiders be shunned? No. Will they be greeted with open arms? Probably not.
My family moved to central Montana when we were priced out of Bozeman. Very small town. Nice, Quiet.
Were we embraced? No. We had to prove we weren't the same as other transplants that had come before. Once we showed them who we were, it was the greatest place in the world.
People here greeted the invasion that came in first in the 70's and tried to be friendly, helpful, and got slapped in the face, taken advantage of, and treated like hicks.
One new out of stater "neighbor" called my father one morning complaining that his road hadn't been plowed. Not our problem, he wasn't paying us. Turns out the realtor that sold them the place told them that as we lived at the end of the road and had to go out to work we just kept the road open, So when my father had a day off and didn't have to leave, he didn't plow on his way out, and the neighbor screamed like a gut shot bear.
He never had approached us to ask if he could drop a dollar or two in the hat to help pay for the gas or upkeep of our equipment. He had never talked to us on the road or while we fixed our fence across the road from his house, None of the things that are supposed to be neighborly, but he sure could demand we plow his road!! Yes, he was a Californian.
If someone wants to move here, fine. I have been other places and understand why you want to leave.
Just be warned. We are no longer the backwoods bumpkins that will be neighborly until you prove yourself to be a neighbor.
I don't care if you have weeds on your property, Don't tell me I can't control them on mine.
I hunt. I fish. I use wood for heat and to build things so yes I will cut a tree. If you don't like it, TOUGH.
If you want to bring your left coast "morality" here, keep it in your yard. I don't want it in mine.
Will I give a neighbor a hand or help if they need it? You bet. BUT, if that neighbor demands it from me, they can take a flying leap at the moon.
Will such a person get the "passive-aggressive" treatment? No, I will simply ignore them.
I know many people that came here from other places, It is impossible not to. Most are decent, hard working folks who just want to raise their kids, live peacefully in a quiet safe place, and maybe have a beer after work is done for the day. I have no problem with them.
I serve on a volunteer fire department, and of the 20 odd members, only 4 of us are actually natives. Does that make the others worth less in my estimation? Not a chance. These people are trying to be part of the community, They are wonderful and very welcome additions.
The ones that cause problems leave a bad taste in the mouth for everybody that encounters them. They become the archtype or stereotype of what can be expected from others coming from that area.
Is that always true? No. But when you have enough people like Ted Turner buying huge pieces of land and locking roads so you can no longer access public ground, or the PETA affilliates calling you names, or the greens shutting down logging and mining and closing roads on National Forest, it doesn't take long to develop a real distaste for people coming in.
This is a great state, with a great history and people. If you come here, it will be as friendly or hostile as you yourself makes it.
Offer to help a neighbor fix a fence or change a tire. Go to the local auctions and school activities. Donate a cake to a bake sale. Be a neighbor, and you will find that you can have the best life in the world here.
Come here to rape our land, take our money, or treat us as second class hicks, the experience will not be as pleasant.
Personally, several Texans I know are great people, and 2 of my former neighbors were ex- New York City Cops. Some of the best people I have ever met.
I don't have the hatred of outsiders many do, but I also do not trust them until that trust is earned.
I am not trying to scare people, or put them off. I am trying to give a factual idea of what to expect here. It is not hard to fit in, but if you try to change it, the road gets bumpy and you create unnessesary hardships for yourself.
A pompous "Well back in Califorina we did it this way" is not the way to make friends and influence people.
I merely tried to articulate in my own way, and perhaps reinforce what others have posted on this thread. Montana is a wonderful place, but it isn't never never land. It is just a good place to live.
When I was young, I wanted to see the world and all the mystic wonderful places I had read about. Very few came close to what was written about them.
The longer I was away, the more I came to realize what a tremendous life we do have here. Yes the wages are abysmal, (the "Scenery Tax"), yes there are problems with some of the residents of the Indian Reservations, But no more than any other place has with other ethnic groups. I learned about the insanity of ethic arguments in Bosnia and Kosovo and the madness of intolerance typlified by the middle east.
I have seen people mindlessly follow leaders who should be in asylums, not presdential palaces.
Nations like North Korea where the people starve while the elite live to excess.
We do have people addicted to drugs, but the culture isn't as prevelent as other places.
And yes, the winters rival Antarctica's blasts sometimes, but you get used to it, sort of...
I believe that as long as we remember that we are Montanans, remember the sacrifices of our ancestors, believe in our ability to use our natural resources wisely, and our ablitiy to survive any trial or hardship, this state will remain the last best place.
After all, we have a large segement of our population who comprise the backbone of this country. Small Business owners, Farmers, Ranchers, Miners, Loggers, Hunters, Military Veterans, Fishermen, Craftsmen and Laborers and so many others it is impossible to list. People who EARN their living by the sweat of their brow. People who exemplify the Montanan work ethic, "a full days work for a days pay". We don't ask for handouts, we EARN our keep. We provide for our families, protect our friends, and help those who need it. People who would give you their last dollar, but wouldn't steal a dime under any circumstance.
We are what America was.
We respect our Flag, Our country, our Neighbors and our God. We respect the Constitution and the ideals espoused within. This is a place where you will be addressed as Sir or Ma'am. The door will be held for you at a store, and if your car breaks down, some good samaritan will stop to help.
Yes we do have some people who would take advantage of a situation, Do drugs, steal, lie, cheat, we are dealing with humans after all, but they are the true minority in my opinion.
And I for one, will do all I can to let the world know that this special place isn't a magical Avalon, but a real physical home to some of the best people that have ever lived in one special place.
If someone wants to be a part of that, my best advice is be ready to give of yourself to keep this state the wonderful place it is.
Don't try to change it, but instead embrace what this culture has to offer and I believe you will find that this underpayed, overworked, backwater of a state, well maybe it truly is the promised land.
I merely tried to articulate in my own way, and perhaps reinforce what others have posted on this thread. Montana is a wonderful place, but it isn't never never land. It is just a good place to live.
When I was young, I wanted to see the world and all the mystic wonderful places I had read about. Very few came close to what was written about them.
The longer I was away, the more I came to realize what a tremendous life we do have here. Yes the wages are abysmal, (the "Scenery Tax"), yes there are problems with some of the residents of the Indian Reservations, But no more than any other place has with other ethnic groups. I learned about the insanity of ethic arguments in Bosnia and Kosovo and the madness of intolerance typlified by the middle east.
I have seen people mindlessly follow leaders who should be in asylums, not presdential palaces.
Nations like North Korea where the people starve while the elite live to excess.
We do have people addicted to drugs, but the culture isn't as prevelent as other places.
And yes, the winters rival Antarctica's blasts sometimes, but you get used to it, sort of...
I believe that as long as we remember that we are Montanans, remember the sacrifices of our ancestors, believe in our ability to use our natural resources wisely, and our ablitiy to survive any trial or hardship, this state will remain the last best place.
After all, we have a large segement of our population who comprise the backbone of this country. Small Business owners, Farmers, Ranchers, Miners, Loggers, Hunters, Military Veterans, Fishermen, Craftsmen and Laborers and so many others it is impossible to list. People who EARN their living by the sweat of their brow. People who exemplify the Montanan work ethic, "a full days work for a days pay". We don't ask for handouts, we EARN our keep. We provide for our families, protect our friends, and help those who need it. People who would give you their last dollar, but wouldn't steal a dime under any circumstance.
We are what America was.
We respect our Flag, Our country, our Neighbors and our God. We respect the Constitution and the ideals espoused within. This is a place where you will be addressed as Sir or Ma'am. The door will be held for you at a store, and if your car breaks down, some good samaritan will stop to help.
Yes we do have some people who would take advantage of a situation, Do drugs, steal, lie, cheat, we are dealing with humans after all, but they are the true minority in my opinion.
And I for one, will do all I can to let the world know that this special place isn't a magical Avalon, but a real physical home to some of the best people that have ever lived in one special place.
If someone wants to be a part of that, my best advice is be ready to give of yourself to keep this state the wonderful place it is.
Don't try to change it, but instead embrace what this culture has to offer and I believe you will find that this underpayed, overworked, backwater of a state, well maybe it truly is the promised land.
It sure is for me.
Very true... CD has me on rep probation so I can't do anymore than rep +4 ya!
I moved here last June, Yes!, from CA. No, not from the big city. A small town surrounded by farm land.
Almost everyone assumes that because I am from CA I should not be here.
I moved here to help care for my aging father and to provide my daughter with a safe place to grow up. We spent every cent we had moving here, we are broke.
No one will give me a job, why? "Oh, you're from CA", and "You'll never survive the winter". Yes I'm from CA, and I did survive the winter, even without the heater working in my truck. Oh, and I did have to drive in blizzard conditions. It only got cold here a couple of times.
No my street is never plowed, didn't expect it to be done, I live on a side street.
We make less than $30,000 a year. We can not afford to buy property or a home.
I find most people pleasant, but gave up trying to make friends here, because I'm from CA and an outcast.
I don't miss CA, but I think moving to MT was a mistake.
"Oh, you're from CA", and "You'll never survive the winter".
I wonder if they've ever heard of the Sierra Nevada Mountains. It's in CA, and yes it snows.
I suggest you figure out how to move Bozeman. That city might as well be California.
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Montana has shown me no love
