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hey Timberwolf232...
Really well-put and thoughtful original post. I'll be adding rep when I'm done typing here.
This scenario seems to be playing itself out all over the Rocky Mountain states. It's truly sad. There seems to be a real loss of a sense of what is "right". Too often, it gets overlooked for what is "easy" or "profitable". But you know what? The best things in life are free. Move somewhere to be free...to enjoy wide open skies, mountains, open space, and hard work. Move somewhere to live life. Don't try to change your new place into a replica of your old place. If you move to NYC, then adjust to the flow. Same thing if you move to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, etc. You're there for what that place is...not for what you can suck out of it...and not for how you can change it.
I'm born and raised in Montana. There's nothing to fear here unless you choose to make it so. Anyone can fit in and be accepted. It's when outsiders try to impose their Jane Fonda "I'm smarter than you" San Francisco values that the trouble begins. Montanans are sensible people and have been doing great long before you arrived. If you're so smart, go back and fix where you came from - cuz we all know it has a lot more problems than Montana.
But, if you're coming here to live and let live, then welcome. And enjoy!!
Last edited by HiLine; 03-21-2008 at 08:10 AM..
Reason: wanting to add more
I currently live in Minnesota and am dying to get out. Montana is a possibility, but it's BECAUSE of the people and the way of life you live. If people want to move somewhere and bring their culture and way of life with them, there are states where that's not a problem. California and Minnesota are two of them. Go for it!
But, there are places, like Montana, that need to be understood as a BACK-OFF zone. It's INCREDIBLY rude to move somewhere and then try to change the way of life there. It's arrogant!
Unfortunately, when people think of moving to Montana, it's usually for it's utter beauty and openness (geographically). They don't give two thoughts to the residents who already live there. But, when you look at Hollywood and the media, you almost can't blame them because everything is geared to being ME-centered. "Buy this to make YOUR life easier!" "YOU deserve the best!" Over time, this has brain-washed people. Regardless, people are still responsible for their own decisions, which means that you respect the place AND THE PEOPLE in your new state/city/town/township/etc., They've survived just fine without your help for many years.
Sorry. This whole thing with moving somewhere and then trying to run the place really ticks me off.
I actually don't really have an opinion on the topic of this forum but I am trying to find out if it's true that Jane Fonda paid to have a mountain removed or destroyed because it obstructed the view from her house in Montana?
I am writing a paper for an environmental sociology course and I want to be able to site this as an example but I cannot find any news about it.
can any local residents fill me in on the inside story?
hey Timberwolf232...
Really well-put and thoughtful original post. I'll be adding rep when I'm done typing here.
This scenario seems to be playing itself out all over the Rocky Mountain states. It's truly sad. There seems to be a real loss of a sense of what is "right". Too often, it gets overlooked for what is "easy" or "profitable". But you know what? The best things in life are free. Move somewhere to be free...to enjoy wide open skies, mountains, open space, and hard work. Move somewhere to live life. Don't try to change your new place into a replica of your old place. If you move to NYC, then adjust to the flow. Same thing if you move to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, etc. You're there for what that place is...not for what you can suck out of it...and not for how you can change it.
Let me start off by saying I am a California immigrant. I agree 100% about what has been said in regards to moving somewhere new and trying to change it to fit your old style. I think its wrong. Though, in California, there is no hope for change let me tell you. The liberal wackos in Sacramento and curupt judges run that state, the people have no voice, do some research on proposition 187 15 years ago. You will see what I mean. Every vote doesn't count - just the lawyers, special interest groups, and politicians.
There are many reasons why I moved to Montana from California. My political views, family values, job market, crime, and general quality of life all played a part in my decision to move. Of course, the biggest one was the job transfer.
Yes, I own a house in California. But because of the current market situation (I lived 30 miles from the foreclosurer capital of the world) I still own it and can't sell it. I have to rent it out for less than my mortgage and rent here till I can sell it, which won't be for another 2 years if I'm lucky. Sure, I'll make some money off the house and be able to buy something nice up here. Its not going to be a mansion or a "California Ranch", just something sensible that's not going to break myself or wife to pay for it. I didn't get my house for free as some of the posts here seem to think every Californian gets a house for free and gets to sell it for a mint. I busted my ass, working 60-70 hours a week to come up with the money for the down payment and mortgage. Now I want a break.
I came here not to flash my money, just make my standard of living a little easier. Is that a crime? Does anybody know how many people move to California from the rest of the country to escape the weather and make more money in their career field every year? 10's of thousands! Why do you think we can sell our houses for so much? There used to be bumper stickers on cars in California in the 1980's that read "Welcome to California, Now go Home!" Which, should be put back on cars today in that state only they need to be printed in Spanish, if you get my drift...Which brings back the subject of people moving in and changing everything to the way it was back home. The city I came from was starting to look like Tijuana. Dirty, graffitti, gangs, roach coaches on every block, Mexican grocery stores, you get the point.
I love the freedom of Montana. Everything is simple, not much government interference with your lives. While I don't ride a motorcycle, I like seeing bikers without helmets on. What gives someone the right to tell others what to do with their own lives? If you want your skull smashed in on a curb, thats your right.
Everybody is extremely friendly, I get a little razzing about being from California but its all in good fun. Reading these posts though, I wonder what's said behind my back...I don't care. I'm here for the long haul so we'll all just have to adjust.
Nedrick,
I was stationed in Lemoore, which I'm sure you're familar with based on my assumptions that you are from near Fresno "foreclosure capital". Growing up in the Bitterroot Valley, I was spoiled with a sparse population and then living in California for 8 years opened my eyes to the problems of overcrowding. The one thing that my fellow Montanans seem to fail to recognize is that the growing population in this state doesn't mean that there is an adverse decline in other areas across the country. California's population is growing at a head-spinning pace. New York, Pennsylvania....all fifty states are seeing population booms. I think if more Montanans realized this, and that we are not unique in this, they may understand their folly in the anti-foreigner sentiments. After all, this is a free country where we can still pick and choose where we want to live. I foresee the day when Montana won't be much different from what California is today, simply by looking at the history of California. In the '30s and '40s, California was a sleepy and beautiful state, much like Montana of today....then came the boom, people loved California for its mountains and wide open spaces and the beaches.....and a little amusement park had sprung up in the citrus groves of Anaheim by the name of Disney Land. Our resorts, however, seem to be geared more towards the elite in our country, but we are still a famous destination and we are growing at a pretty good rate. The core problem is the different perspectives of where Montana is and where it is heading. Californians have seen what happens to the environment and they see that it is happening here, Montanans say that it is because of the increase in population and since we've taken care of it for hundreds of years we know what we're doing. Is there a compromise in this situation? Maybe. It will take both sides to finally understand each other, but I think that day will come when the boom will be seen for what it is, a new beginning a way to handle a large increase in population without destroying the very thing that brought those masses here in the first place....the beautiful Montana landscapes.
To be clear, I am not an environmentalist (they are a group whose goal is to eliminate the human factor from the environment) I am a conservationist, I believe in an intelligent integration of the human factor in the environment. That is what Montanans, in general, are for. They are the original conservationists, we've been using the land for hundreds of years, without destroying it...after all, it has been our livelyhood since the beginning of our statehood.
I think that one of the hard parts to adjust to is the new changes that have come with the digital age, where a rich cat can buy land off the internet without regard to the community that's lived there for generations. With every new thing there is good and bad, but most people moving in seem to be pretty nice.
We just need to get rid of places like the Yellowstone Club and the exclusive, gated community crowd. It seems a bit pretentious to come in and build a mansion on what used to be public land and gate it off to all the neighbors that have lived in the area for years and years. Don't get me wrong, my poop stinks just as bad as anyone elses, I just don't dump it in the river upstream from everyone else like they do!
Truly, I believe that if the people moving in are as conscientious as you, (based on your posts) we should be able to grow and prosper well without too much bad stuff to deal with. Hopefully we will all be able to make good livings and live to the fullest!
Good luck... I had to put in some rep for both of ya. =-)
well, i'm interviewing for a job at malmstrom. i have lived all over, including liberal whacko san francisco which was fantastic. i am an unapologetic tree hugger. i recycle and i even intend to vote for OBAMA (gasp!) this november.
does that mean that i'm going to bash you over the head with liberal ideology? absolutely not. but i'm also not going to remove the bumper stickers from my car and i'm not going to pretend to like hunting. i hope we can get along, and i'll do my best to make that happen. but not at the expense of my personal beliefs. if that's a problem for some people, i think they need to stop and ask themselves why they reject things that are different. wouldn't hurt to reread the bill of rights either, because deep down, we are all immigrants.
well, i'm interviewing for a job at malmstrom. i have lived all over, including liberal whacko san francisco which was fantastic. i am an unapologetic tree hugger. i recycle and i even intend to vote for OBAMA (gasp!) this november.
does that mean that i'm going to bash you over the head with liberal ideology? absolutely not. but i'm also not going to remove the bumper stickers from my car and i'm not going to pretend to like hunting. i hope we can get along, and i'll do my best to make that happen. but not at the expense of my personal beliefs. if that's a problem for some people, i think they need to stop and ask themselves why they reject things that are different. wouldn't hurt to reread the bill of rights either, because deep down, we are all immigrants.
You absolutely have the right to believe what you want and move where you want as do we. That being said, don't be surprised if you're not welcomed with open arms by long time residents or see a few cold shoulders when your west coast bumper stickers are seen, that'll tell people exactly what you think.
I don't particularly like hunting either, not because I'm against it I don't like the meat very much so it's a waste on me but I would never tell someone they shouldn't hunt. Tree hugging is fine as long as it's kept to how you live your life and not used to restrict what others do or stuff it in their faces (like bumper stickers). You have to realize the wacko greenie movement has cost many people here their jobs and almost killed many towns.
No one expects you to go against your beliefs here but to apply them to your own life not theirs and to be truthful no one here has to ask themselves anything, your moving into this area, they are not moving into yours.
It's the attitude that we have to do something different or change the fundimentals of this place so others can live here that drives people nuts.
You will enjoy this area and all it has to offer if you just keep in mind that you should try to fit in here and not try to make it fit you.
Happy trails!
Good luck. What is so hard to understand about this? If "liberal, whacko San Francisco" is so good, why leave? San Francisco doesn't want Montana's well, let's say a bit more conservative views as much as Montana doesn't want San Francisco's liberal whacko views! Montana isn't a great place because we hold the views of people who live in places like San Francisco. It's just gets me that people want to move here and try to change the atmosphere to their liking, yet if we moved to their state or cities, they wouldn't stand for us bringing our ideas. I guess we here in Montana just need to be a little more tolerant....
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Question about Jane Fonda
