The Montanan's problem with outsiders moving in.. (Great Falls: mover, how much)

[rickers]

Anytime anyone moves to a different area they change the place just by being there, I really don't think the little folks who move here are to blame as much as the out of state developers who buy land from farmers and not letting on that they will build tract homes on the land rather than farming etc. Oh by the way our town is losing people, not getting overrun by invaders. It would be nice if more folks moved in, then we wouldn't have so many empty houses and storefronts. The "Mayberry of Montana" has room for more people, just remember to BYOJ !

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by Gman2007

Good luck. What is so hard to understand about this? If "liberal, whacko San Francisco" is so good, why leave? San Francisco doesn't want Montana's well, let's say a bit more conservative views as much as Montana doesn't want San Francisco's liberal whacko views! Montana isn't a great place because we hold the views of people who live in places like San Francisco. It's just gets me that people want to move here and try to change the atmosphere to their liking, yet if we moved to their state or cities, they wouldn't stand for us bringing our ideas. I guess we here in Montana just need to be a little more tolerant....

You are exactly right Gman.
It's crazy anymore, I don't understand why some folks will bring their views to a place and then when they don't get welcomed the way they want to be, they call everyone that doesn't agree with them intolerant.

In my opinion it's partially tolerance that screws places up, because if we let people bring their views, business practices etc... into Montana with no resistance, next thing you know your not living in Montana anymore, but Eastern Arctic California or Western New York instead.

It's already started in the larger towns, where all the stores and stuff are more and more like cookie cutters of everywhere else, but thankfully we still have our small towns with all the heart in the world.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by rickers

Anytime anyone moves to a different area they change the place just by being there, I really don't think the little folks who move here are to blame as much as the out of state developers who buy land from farmers and not letting on that they will build tract homes on the land rather than farming etc. *snip*

I agree. Development has gotten way out of hand, and prices are still through the roof out this way.

I spent the weekend up in the Swan Valley and was pretty shocked about how much it's changed up there also. Beautiful country, but lots of million dollar properties for sale.

Maybe I'm ignorant, but I sure don't understand why the prices are so out of hand. Is it speculators causing the problems like with fuel prices? As much as I enjoy getting online, sometimes I really think we would be better off without such easy access to information. Who is making all the money? How can so many people afford these million dollar getaways?

[geonerd]

My point was that if I get the job, I'd like to get along with the locals regardless of our differences. I don't want to make Montana or any other place into a bastardized version of San Francisco. In fact, that's exactly what people who have no tolerance, no ability to understand differences, would try to do. And my philosophy is the opposite. Live and let live.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by geonerd

My point was that if I get the job, I'd like to get along with the locals regardless of our differences. I don't want to make Montana or any other place into a bastardized version of San Francisco. In fact, that's exactly what people who have no tolerance, no ability to understand differences, would try to do. And my philosophy is the opposite. Live and let live.

I hear ya.. Like Leonard Cohen put it, "I'm neither left nor right, I'm just staying home tonight."

I think a lot of the resentment out here comes from fiscal changes more than people moving in. Cost of living goes up faster than wages and it gets to be tough on people. It's way easier to blame others than to try to fix the problem. (I've been guilty of the same... cringing when I see a CA plate etc... Mostly because my brother in-law lives out there and he's a lazy arrogant leech that has the cash to buy and sell property here and in other states to make his money. Leeches like that in my opinion deserve the salt treatment. ) For the most part I think you'll find that people don't really care what you believe personally or politically and are pretty accepting of new ideas.

Good luck with your interview.

[TypicalCalifornian]

I have never understood the dislike of speculators. Speculation is the grease and oil that makes capitalism work. Does a farmer speculate when they decide to grow soybeans or wheat or some other product based upon an entire spectrum of informations...what other farmers might do? what they feel about the growing season will be like? the state of the soils on their farm? etc. Does a bakery owner speculate when they buy more wheat than they will need this week or month? If not is the bakery owner speculating when they negotiate a long term contract for wheat so that they can make a long term contract with a store, etc?

So if a land speculator determines that people will want to leave California and move to say, Montana, and "speculates" that these movers will want 5 acre ranchettes costing between $1m and $1.5M, and further speculating they can obtain permits, roads, sewers, obtain financing, etc....is this speculator not providing value and at considerable risk? Are they then a speculator, or a developer first?

Oil speculation. I have no idea how speculation is even remotely a consideration in this discussion of soaring gas prices. The BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) are consuming enormous quantities of oil yet no (significant) new quantities of this is coming on line. Further, inventories of oil are falling, certainly not something consistent with "speculation". When one thinks of speculation, inventories of an item would have to be witheld in some way such that a price artificially rises. In our case, no oil goes unused, today, next week or next month. Now The oil owners, say the Saudi's ARE NOT pumping every drop out of their ground in a short term, exercising the same good sense a Montana farmer might "speculating" that selling now is not as profitable as it will be in the future. So both the farmer and the oil owner are speculating in the sense they assume some future events conducive to their maximizing profits.

Are developers in Montana building properties that are unsalable? Perhaps, and if so they will be chastened by their decision to the benefit of Montanans. Will oil prices ever fall? Only if new supply is developed (or substitutes) which one political party who shall go unnamed here is preventing.

It's not speculation to understand oil prices will rise if new supply does not come on line, it's a no-brainer.

PS I am neither a speculator nor a developer...too chicken to put my money into a game I can scarcely comprehend, but I do appreciate those brave souls who speculate about my needs and wants without asking me to guess what I will want to eat, drink, or where I will live in the future and stay up nights trying to find ways to meet my unknown needs.

[ElkHunter]

Depends what the speculators are going to do.

Are they going to take that prestine valley with the streams and the elk and Speculate it right into a subdivision so more people from out of state can flaunt their money, and ***** cause they don't have a big box store on the corner?

Are they going to speculate that we don't need that winding road going up through the mountains. We can build a divided 4 lane straight to the ski lodge and that way we won't have to waste time passing the awful smelling places that raise cattle.

What do you mean we have to drive 4 miles to find a Starbucks? that is insane. Let's build one here in the subdivision.

[CountryGal27]

Well, folks. Here's a little story for ya too.

I have owned my house in NW WI for two years. Not a native of this town, but a native of WI. This town has 1000 to 1100 people. I live 1 block from the school. I am a single mom, surrounded by at least 4-5 other single moms. I have ONE neighbor that says hi. The others, and I am surrounded by homes, won't even lift their arm or look my way when I'm in the yard.

I have ex-co-workers that I have known for going on 9 years. Have tried my darndest to invite them over for various things. I've only gotten two that have come. People don't have time, TOO BUSY, don't want to drive, or just are plain two-faced and nice to you at work and that's it.

I "think" I'm a nice person..............maybe it's me?

I don't care for that unfriendly attitude, it is frustrating.

The bartenders are friendly though.

Is Montana any different? I like to take the time, invite over friends, go places with friends, etc, --do Montanans do that? or do they all just stay home and lock the doors.

Folks may as well live 50 miles from their neighbor here, maybe then they would be more inclined to be friendly when they do see another human.

I really don't think it matters what state your in actually. Everyone feels like an outsider until they make the honest effort not to be, in a respectable way of course.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by CountryGal27

Well, folks. Here's a little story for ya too.

I have owned my house in NW WI for two years. Not a native of this town, but a native of WI. This town has 1000 to 1100 people. I live 1 block from the school. I am a single mom, surrounded by at least 4-5 other single moms. I have ONE neighbor that says hi. The others, and I am surrounded by homes, won't even lift their arm or look my way when I'm in the yard.

I have ex-co-workers that I have known for going on 9 years. Have tried my darndest to invite them over for various things. I've only gotten two that have come. People don't have time, TOO BUSY, don't want to drive, or just are plain two-faced and nice to you at work and that's it.

I "think" I'm a nice person..............maybe it's me?

I don't care for that unfriendly attitude, it is frustrating.

The bartenders are friendly though.

Is Montana any different? I like to take the time, invite over friends, go places with friends, etc, --do Montanans do that? or do they all just stay home and lock the doors.

Folks may as well live 50 miles from their neighbor here, maybe then they would be more inclined to be friendly when they do see another human.

I really don't think it matters what state your in actually. Everyone feels like an outsider until they make the honest effort not to be, in a respectable way of course.

Our friends are like family, and rarely will we go an entire week without getting together at one time or another. It's nice too, as we all have kids, from almost 2 years old to 19 and can always find something fun for all of us.

[nebulous1]

I am living in AZ, from the midwest, and I saw this forum thread and had to comment. A lot of what all of you are complaining about is so real and it is going on all over. The people who have money and buy up homes and only look for the next buck. My landlord is that way. He wants money, money and more money.

People are losing a sense of community and what is important. I don't blame the Montanans one bit for not wanting their land commercialized and ruined. I don't blame them for not wanting the plastic surgery crowd and the cutthroat developers.

I am tired of seeing fast food and the same places everywhere I go. Every high exit looks the same, with the same signs.
Same mallish look...McDonald's, Speedy Muffler, Wendy's, and the rest of those grease pit health wreckers.
There was a time when you could remember one exit off a highway from another, but now, they are all beginning to look alike.
Even the midrange priced restaurants are chains.

Oh, and yeah, the animals have no where to go, and we get told that there are more wolves, bears, etc., coming near cities. Duh. It is we who are encroaching on them.
I read a 500 pound gorilla and his family were butchered in Africa. They sell parts to make money off them. Soon, there won't be these magnificient animals.

Dumb animals? I think it's some of the people. The animals have more wisdom.