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The "Californian" problem goes way back in the rocky mountain west. It's synonymous with people taking up their own causes and views in an area that may not, nor want to share those said views. MOST, but not all of this frustration is based on the "California" attitude.
Unfortunately, it's a true stigma, not about judgment of people individually, but of a collective attitude that IS a part of a lot of the mindset of a lot of people mostly from California. (and other larger areas)
I understand that every person is different, and a lot of Californians are really nice people. I just pick on CA folks more because the majority of the greedy real estate types come from out there... Actually I have quite a few friends from CA, and we agree about the mindset thing... There are quite a few nice Californians on this forum too.. but again most agree about the mindset in the area and want to move! I don't blame them!
What I have a hard time with is the attitude of people that have this desperate drive to move here, and live here for a few months and then express a need for "change". GO HOME!
The beauty of Montana has been there for thousands of years and it's really frustrating to live here, and hear from and see people that want (and aggressively attempt) to change the way things are done here.
We're not Al Quada.. We don't make women wear hoods, nor do we chop the hands off of thieves or cut the tongues out of the mouths of liars.. (although if you steal from or lie to the wrong person you might get an old fashioned western ass whoopin'..)
Addressing the housing issue... People from areas that have inflated home values that take advantage of the rural economy by buying property to resell for profit, or as a tax write off as a small business (We call these California ranches) really do more hurt than benefit for the state as a whole. (You'll hear politicians lie about this all the time and say it's good, but come visit some ranch/farming families and see how it effects them.)
I don't blame the honest immigrants , but we do get a lot of the ones who knew what they were doing when they "back doored" the area they moved from. Now they try and do it here. (by "back dooring" I mean the ones who bought land and homes just to "flip" the property for a profit based on the current economy.) This is how they make their money.., is it an honest trade??
NO! It's not honest to bleed other people for money, even if it's in a roundabout way. PERIOD.
If YOU WANT TO EARN A LIVING HERE GET A JOB THAT HELPS the economy, instead of one that bleeds it.
Another crazy thing is these types of people move in and as the property values and taxes go up take it in the shorts as well, because they pay the inflated prices.. if they were smart they could have SAVED that extra money and bought low and had some security. All it takes is the patience and forethought not to pay too much, along with the willingness to walk out of the broker's office because the asking price is too much.
They think that because they moved to a lower value market that the price was good.. Not if your job won't support the difference... and that is exactly what a lot of newbies are starting to find out. Unfortunately it's effecting the honest ones that simply wanted to better their lives more than the greedy ones that pay attention to the market and know how to work it to their advantage.. (Life is not a poker game folks, as fun as it sounds the house always wins in the long run. )
Some of the new folks think that they figured out how to make "easy" money by "flipping" properties in a slower market based on what they learned in the big city or town they came from, then moved to Montana with the attitude of "who's to blame me for bettering myself?" right?? "I'll just pass my loss on to the next buyer."
WRONG What they do is jack up the prices for the majority of the honest people (and themselves) that are pursuing an honest reason to move out here.... An escape from crime, drugs, gangs, greed etc...
How bad does it suck for people that scrimped and saved to be able to move and then come to face a grossly inflated housing market that they can't afford??..
Especially on Montana salaries? We are in the running for the LOWEST pay and LONGEST HOURS WORKED in the NATION.
And 75% of the newbies don't consider at all the impact they have on the people that have lived here for all or most of their lives. That sucks.
I can't think of a single friend or coworker out here that would turn a blind eye to someone new that was looking for friendship, advice, or opportunity regardless of where they came from, but at the same time almost everyone I know has had at least 2-3 bad run-ins with people trying to gather info from them, or to try to get them to sell out land that has been in their family for generations so they can divide it up and sell it for a profit. Some of them now taxed out and living in apartments instead of on their families ranches.. Makes ya sick.
I'm curious to see how others see this.
Comments??
Last edited by Timberwolf232; 02-17-2008 at 10:13 PM..
Reason: Typo
Hi,
I live in northren california. People only see one side to california. that would be southren cal. They are the people who would give us a bad name. You say that cal. people come over there and make taxes and property go up. Well the same thing happens in the northren part of cal. My family and I do not own our own home. for the simple fact that we can not afford it. Because the people come up from southren cal. they sell their houses down there for millions and come up here and buy a house for half the price. And pocket the rest. So I do feel your pain there. we were thinking about moving over to Montana for a simple peaceful life.for we are rasing two children and love the out doors. But I come on the threads and see how much people do not like cal. But the cal. people are feeling shoved out and going through the same thing. My husband is not a bussiness man or a ceo of some company. We are blue collared workers and love to fish and live a simple life.
so please be a ware that we are not all they same.
I looked at southern california housing prices the other day and can't figure out how people can afford those homes?!
Where does all this money come from? I know that hollywood and silicon valley are big money makers, but I just can't figure out how any normal working person or family can make ends meet even on a 50-80K salary out there.
Even out here I can't figure out how people are able to buy homes. If I hadn't bought my little place 10 years ago there would be absolutely no way I could afford it now. (and I live in a small 1250 square foot home.)
Montanans have been put at a complete disadvantage in their own state when it comes to buying a home.......we just can't compete with the outside money, they come in and buy what we can't afford and in the process drive up the prices. A mild for of genecide you might say.
Alot of reason people can afford to buy those really expensive homes here and elsewhere...........they are just moving sideways in the market, not first time buyers.
I heard a story of a doctor and a realestate agent, the agent didn't know she was talking to a doctor...............Agent: "oh doctors and lawyers buy these houses"...............Doctor: "I'm a doctor and I can't afford to buy one"
What where at one time built to be first-time-buyer homes have now reached level that no working person can afford to buy.
Meet a person the other day - they work 2 jobs, 60 hours a week, just to afford to buy their condo, and not an expensive one at that.
And the problem all can be contributed to, not entirely, but in large part to ............outside money.
I read the threads on here. I think that the problem with outside money is any where you go. As I have stated before the people in cal. feel the same way. We were thinking about relocating over to montana. But then I read the threads and wonder if we would be welcome over there. We are not rich bye all means. I would love to be able to buy a house one day. But i do not for see that happening here in cal. for us. Is it really that hard to make a living in montana? My husband is a automotive tech. It really makes me wonder if a doctor can't afford a house there how can anyone? We don't even make 80,000 a year. So I don't really know how people do it.
Are the wages there really low? Is there lack of jobs? We feel that we work are butts of to bearly make ends meet. We are just tired of getting taxed for everything. The middle class is getting shoved out. Pretty soon we will not even exist.
I have to admit, I am fearful to ask this even though I am a faceless person on a computer, Can someone move to Montana for a better quality of life, from an outside area and be accepted? I have read on different threads that people have actually had possessions vandalized for being an outsider. I am all for preserving the environment but that type of mentality seems sad and scary? Is that the exception or the norm? If someone abides by the lifestyle "requirements", will they someday be accepted? Any honest insight into the heart of the people in your state would be greatly appreciated. I grew up in Oregon skiing, hiking and camping, have lived many places since and would love to have my children experience what I experience. We possi ly have future employment in Montana and although it seems to be every thing we dream of, I would never want my children to be singled out or tormented for the fact that they were not born in your state. Any honest feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Nope. My great grandfather homesteaded in Big Sandy Montana and raised his family.All of my moms side is buried or still lives here(in Missoula) she married and moved to Washington.We used to come back and visit all the time.Two of us kids have moved back here and we are treated like outsiders too. All they have to hear is you moved here from Washington and thats it. My ancestors are rolling over in their graves im sure.Im really sick of the "Native Montana" thing.
we were also thinking about moving to montana. But I too come on the threads and see what people have to say. us comming from cal. I'm sure we would be singled out. At least that is what I see happening. We are just looking for a simpler way of life. Not wanting to go over there and change anything. We are not wanting to buy a big piece of land to fence it off. Or anyhting like that. We just want to live a simple life. And I hear that montana is beautiful and full of wild life. But I wonder if people would welcome us over there.
Hey Timberwolf,
Well... I'm from NY.. LI NY to be exact, which is a suburb of NYC. My mom was originall from MT and met my dad when he was in teh Air Force (he was from NY originally). She moved back to a small town outside of Great Falls when my father passed away in 2001 (she moved there in 2002 within 6 - 9 months of his death). She wanted to get back to her side of the family.
I grew up in NY my whole life.. I guess I really am a true NY'r although now that i have kids I'll be looking for a better quality of life. My family has a great quality of life as far as family life is concerned (although, salary wise it's a different story). The town they live in is awesome and I'm lucky enough to get to visit as often as I would like or want.
I have been a Real Estate agent in NY, although as of late kind of stopped practicing for a little while.. with the market cool down anda 2 year old to look after. I am surprised about your post of overinflated prices and that you also have "flippers" in MT. I would really not think of MT as a good place to do any sort of flipping as I know that salaries are not very high there. I'm curious as to where this occurring in MT.. just for my own curiosity. I haven't really thought it wuold be prevalent in Great Falls.. my mom's town is so small that houses sit on the market for smoe time there (I think some of the houses my mom looked at were still on the market 4 years later.. but she is in a small town!).
I personally LOVE MT and quite a few times the thought of moving their crossed my mind .. to be near my mom and my family. BUT I do understand that going to MT means a HUGE lifestlye change.. lots of things are very different. I think anyone moving to a place like MT should respect what it is and not try to change it.. because if they do, then they will end up ruining what MT has to offer that makes it attractive in the first place.. and turn it into what they are trying to escapre from in their move there.
It seems that the problem of prices overinflated is occurring EVERYWHERE in teh U.S though. On LI, I'm at the higher end of that price spectrum.. but Im' still being priced out of where I grew up. I do understand how someoen from CA could look at a hosue in MT that might be expensive by MT standards but seemingly cheap by their standards because I'm always amazed at what I could get for my money there. Fortunately, though, I understand what my prospects for income are in MT (and not knowing what I'd do when I'd move there is what really stops me from doing it.. because it's scary to move to a place and not know what kind of job or career prospects you'll have. As an outsider in MT it can be tough to be accepted.. my mom it took 5 years in her small town.. and now she's town clerk! at the pulse of it all.. in the beginning she coulnd't get work in the small town.)
MT is gorgeous.. and those moving their really need to respect what it is, how it is and it's culture. If you want to bring the conveniences of CA to MT.. don't. They don't want it nor need it.. you have to learn to live without it if you're going to live there. Changing it will take away what makes MT. wonderful place to live (if it's for you) or visit!
I have to admit, I am fearful to ask this even though I am a faceless person on a computer, Can someone move to Montana for a better quality of life, from an outside area and be accepted? I have read on different threads that people have actually had possessions vandalized for being an outsider. I am all for preserving the environment but that type of mentality seems sad and scary? Is that the exception or the norm? If someone abides by the lifestyle "requirements", will they someday be accepted? Any honest insight into the heart of the people in your state would be greatly appreciated. I grew up in Oregon skiing, hiking and camping, have lived many places since and would love to have my children experience what I experience. We possi ly have future employment in Montana and although it seems to be every thing we dream of, I would never want my children to be singled out or tormented for the fact that they were not born in your state. Any honest feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Okay.. I will give you my mom's story about her move from MT, to NY for almost 30 years, then back to MT.
She never liked NY.. anyoen from MT would never like to live in a place like NY. It's a REAL culture shock.. so when my father passed she decided to pack up and go back to her side of the family she left when she married my dad (who was in the air force and was originally from NY). Well.. some of NY did sink into my mom after 30 years.. so now she was a little of a fish out of water in MT after living in NY. She moved to a small (but very cute and well put together little town) outside of Fairfield. My mom's sister, her husband her their 2 daughers have lived there for ..well close to 30 or more years (both mu cousins grew up there, raised their kids their who are now Seniors in H.S and graduated, etc.). Very well ingrained in the community. My mom had them for support..
BUT.. she was STILL an outsider. I remember when my mom moved in she was the "Ny'r with NY money moving into Fairfield". yeah.. my mom had a fun new car (PT Cruiser that was decorated like a cow) and yes, she had a nice sized house in town.. although not one of the nicest. But they still kind of looked at her like an outsider, although she was born and raised in MT. When my mom finally started looking for jobs in town she woldn't get them even though she was more qualified by far (ex: my mom orgainized soccer dinners for the orginaztion here for thousands of kids on a huge scale.. she applied for a 4H job with about 1/5 of the numbers this volunteer thing my mom did here had but they gave the job to someone 'more qualified" who turned out to be a receptionist who worked for my cousin who's only qualification was answering the phone (my mom was an executive secretary for 15 plus years, btw). My mom was very frustrated.. but she hung in there. Endued up getting a job 45 minutes away in Great Falls (the gas was killer though). Well time went by and she was attending events with my Aunt, Uncle Etc.. trying to join things.. Finally there was a job opening at the Town Clerks office.. there is only 1 town clerk.. she applied and SHE GOT IT!! and she got it over other locals.. (she really was more qualified) In the first week my mom found the town THOUSANDS of dollars that were overlooked because of sloppy work before, etc. She loves her job, everyone in town knows her and she knows everyone.. AND SHE FINALLY FEELS ACCEPTED.
It did take 5 years.. even with an in like family.. it took awhile.. but now she is one of them!!
But.. this is important.. my mom didn't go there and try to change anything and make it like it was here.. and that , I think , is important. And knowing how much my family cherish their town, I can understand why they are wary of outsiders from MT moving in .. because the town really is special.
Hope I've helped and given some insight.
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Not all califorina people are bad
