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Old 07-10-2016, 11:58 PM
 
Location: 406
1,423 posts, read 1,536,495 times
Reputation: 1407

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Quote:
Originally Posted by REE312 View Post
Well I'm not a big government person in any way and I'm not worried whether or not you personally tolerate me.

I am a former libertarian. As I've aged I disagree with the social liberalism of libertarianism. So yeah I am on board with Goldwater except social liberalism. I don't care what people do just don't make it a law that I have to partake. Live and let live.

Look, I just came to get info, not get grilled or politicized.
You politicized the thread by identifying yourself as a conservative.

But yeah, don't forget what I said about Idaho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by REE312 View Post
Still trying to figure out how Montana got itself a democrat government if its so amazingly conservative.

Hmmm....

This is why I asked what areas are conservative.
Democrats have dominated Montana politics for most of its statehood. I'm not talking about conservative Democrats, either. I predict, however, that they'll lose big in MT this year and probably won't recover from it in the near future.

Here's a thought, though: Lincoln, Flathead, Sanders, Mineral and Ravalli counties are easily the most conservative areas west of the Divide. You could move here and launch a secession movement for those counties to split from MT and join Idaho!
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
4,884 posts, read 5,767,013 times
Reputation: 8262
Quote:
Originally Posted by REE312 View Post
I looked at Missoula... I don't think its my sort of place. They need a donut shop, too. Its not totally off the list though.

I am not set on any place but the farther NW the better.

I have heard the economy isn't great by some and that its growing by others. Good to take the bad with the good for an educated decision for sure. ��
Quote:
Originally Posted by REE312 View Post
I'm not a libertarian nor concerned in anyway of a church telling me what to do. Lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by REE312 View Post
Well I'm not a big government person in any way and I'm not worried whether or not you personally tolerate me.

I am a former libertarian. As I've aged I disagree with the social liberalism of libertarianism. So yeah I am on board with Goldwater except social liberalism. I don't care what people do just don't make it a law that I have to partake. Live and let live.

Look, I just came to get info, not get grilled or politicized.

If you're conservative, Missoula isn't a great choice. Most of the rest of the larger towns, once you leave city centers, are pretty conservative, but it's a more laid back, you do your thing and I'll do mine kind of conservatism. Heavy on the "leave me the hell alone" kind of political stance.

Most don't care what you believe as long as you don't try to force your beliefs on them. This isn't the Bible belt, churches don't hold the same kind of sway here the do in other places. More of a belief that your religion is your personal choice and if you choose to practice or not. You won't run into a lot of people preaching on the street or in coffee shops. Here it's more of the way you act towards your friends and family, and the way you respect your neighbors. Religion is practiced through your actions, not by going to church, it's how you live your life and how you interact with the community.

Liberals do find it hard to fit in here. People will listen to you politely when you spout your nonsense, then leave you strictly alone. For instance, come here spouting garbage about deforestation and closing down the forest for fuzzy-wuzzies to keep people out, and you won't find a lot of people that share your ideas.
Some of the small towns are clannish, the old families that are related to everybody do have a lot of pull, but in the big towns, that isn't the case.
In the small towns, if you're a hard worker, friendly, give a good value on the product you sell, are willing to donate to the 4-H club or help when your neighbor needs it, you will be accepted quickly and fit right in.
If you spend all your time belly-aching about how backwards the locals are, it will be a very lonely place.

There are a few here, mostly on the loosing side, that can't get past the politics. Yeah, we have democrats in the governor's chair and other offices, but they aren't the frothing at the mouth Seattle kind of liberals, most are pretty moderate democrats, and the main reason they get elected is because of a couple of the larger cities and the reservations. The vast majority of the land mass here is occupied by pretty conservative people who still believe in God and Country. They work hard to make a living and don't have time to waste on idiots.
A politician that embraces gun control here for instance, won't have an elected career, except maybe on the city council of Missoula. That's also the only place that want's to welcome the Islamic terrorists from Syria that the current regime is trying to bring in.

Folks everywhere like donuts, but it's a hard business to make a success here simply because there aren't a lot of people. You need to have more thank just one item as your mainstay so a good lunch menu would be a plus.
You will need to locate in a larger town, small towns just don't have enough customer base to support an endeavor like that, but you could do fairly well in one of the mid range towns of 30K+ I believe.

Montana isn't an economic powerhouse, (too far from a major waterway for transportation for one thing, everything has to be trucked or by train to export), but we do have nearly full employment. COL can be high for property, but we don't have a sales tax. Most of the larger towns get enough economic activity to survive well, but aren't rich.

If you move here, just be yourself. Folks will accept that as long as you don't try to change their beliefs to make them believe what you do.


Good Luck.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Fairbanks
47 posts, read 35,316 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
If you're conservative, Missoula isn't a great choice. Most of the rest of the larger towns, once you leave city centers, are pretty conservative, but it's a more laid back, you do your thing and I'll do mine kind of conservatism. Heavy on the "leave me the hell alone" kind of political stance.

Most don't care what you believe as long as you don't try to force your beliefs on them. This isn't the Bible belt, churches don't hold the same kind of sway here the do in other places. More of a belief that your religion is your personal choice and if you choose to practice or not. You won't run into a lot of people preaching on the street or in coffee shops. Here it's more of the way you act towards your friends and family, and the way you respect your neighbors. Religion is practiced through your actions, not by going to church, it's how you live your life and how you interact with the community.

Liberals do find it hard to fit in here. People will listen to you politely when you spout your nonsense, then leave you strictly alone. For instance, come here spouting garbage about deforestation and closing down the forest for fuzzy-wuzzies to keep people out, and you won't find a lot of people that share your ideas.
Some of the small towns are clannish, the old families that are related to everybody do have a lot of pull, but in the big towns, that isn't the case.
In the small towns, if you're a hard worker, friendly, give a good value on the product you sell, are willing to donate to the 4-H club or help when your neighbor needs it, you will be accepted quickly and fit right in.
If you spend all your time belly-aching about how backwards the locals are, it will be a very lonely place.

There are a few here, mostly on the loosing side, that can't get past the politics. Yeah, we have democrats in the governor's chair and other offices, but they aren't the frothing at the mouth Seattle kind of liberals, most are pretty moderate democrats, and the main reason they get elected is because of a couple of the larger cities and the reservations. The vast majority of the land mass here is occupied by pretty conservative people who still believe in God and Country. They work hard to make a living and don't have time to waste on idiots.
A politician that embraces gun control here for instance, won't have an elected career, except maybe on the city council of Missoula. That's also the only place that want's to welcome the Islamic terrorists from Syria that the current regime is trying to bring in.

Folks everywhere like donuts, but it's a hard business to make a success here simply because there aren't a lot of people. You need to have more thank just one item as your mainstay so a good lunch menu would be a plus.
You will need to locate in a larger town, small towns just don't have enough customer base to support an endeavor like that, but you could do fairly well in one of the mid range towns of 30K+ I believe.

Montana isn't an economic powerhouse, (too far from a major waterway for transportation for one thing, everything has to be trucked or by train to export), but we do have nearly full employment. COL can be high for property, but we don't have a sales tax. Most of the larger towns get enough economic activity to survive well, but aren't rich.

If you move here, just be yourself. Folks will accept that as long as you don't try to change their beliefs to make them believe what you do.


Good Luck.

Perfect. This is what I suspected. Thank you!
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Old 07-11-2016, 09:29 AM
 
Location: East Helena, MT
823 posts, read 577,802 times
Reputation: 2253
I was raised libertarian, and I am a devout Christian. My family goes to church every Sunday. Most of our friends are atheists. I can see where the older generations were to themselves, but in a modern society and workplace you have to be able to get along with everybody. My family and I haven't had any trouble fitting in MT at all. We live in Helena, and I can tell you, most of the people here do not attend church. But as MT has a live and let live culture, we haven't had any problems at all.


Now onto the real question at hand doughnuts. My kids will take a great doughnut over any other food item on this planet. So we are a hard core doughnut family. Helena had a very successful doughnut shop that was here over 30 years that recently closed because the owner retired. He sold his recipes to another baker who just opened up this week. I, as a consumer think this is what you need to be successful. #1, you have to have great coffee. The younger crowd likes the complicated stuff but most of the over 40 crowd wants really great basic coffee. You need to use the local coffee roasters, which there are a few, to source your beans. The locals do love to support local businesses. #2, you need to use local ingredients. Huckleberry and Chokecherry are loved here, so you put that in a donut and you have a gold mine. #3, you need to support the local youth sports teams, that will go a long way to getting you in the community. Most leagues will allow you to set up a booth if you sponsor. #4, there are tons of festivals and farmers markets you can work, so a food trailer or truck will pay off big time. Just as an example in Helena, you have the farmers market, the Helena and East Helena Rodeo, the Helena spring and summer fairs, Butte has a folk music festival and Evil Knieval festival, etc. #5, don't go too quickly, we have had several very promising food related businesses close recently because they tried to expand too fast. #6, offer unique items on your lunch menu so that you aren't competing with the big box franchises.


Let me know when you open. We went to Missoula to their donut shop and it was very low quality. My 5 year old son embarrassed the guy behind the counter and told me "daddy, are donuts supposed to be hard, cause my donut is like a rock", he replaced it but they still weren't very good.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Fairbanks
47 posts, read 35,316 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
I was raised libertarian, and I am a devout Christian. My family goes to church every Sunday. Most of our friends are atheists. I can see where the older generations were to themselves, but in a modern society and workplace you have to be able to get along with everybody. My family and I haven't had any trouble fitting in MT at all. We live in Helena, and I can tell you, most of the people here do not attend church. But as MT has a live and let live culture, we haven't had any problems at all.


Now onto the real question at hand doughnuts. My kids will take a great doughnut over any other food item on this planet. So we are a hard core doughnut family. Helena had a very successful doughnut shop that was here over 30 years that recently closed because the owner retired. He sold his recipes to another baker who just opened up this week. I, as a consumer think this is what you need to be successful. #1, you have to have great coffee. The younger crowd likes the complicated stuff but most of the over 40 crowd wants really great basic coffee. You need to use the local coffee roasters, which there are a few, to source your beans. The locals do love to support local businesses. #2, you need to use local ingredients. Huckleberry and Chokecherry are loved here, so you put that in a donut and you have a gold mine. #3, you need to support the local youth sports teams, that will go a long way to getting you in the community. Most leagues will allow you to set up a booth if you sponsor. #4, there are tons of festivals and farmers markets you can work, so a food trailer or truck will pay off big time. Just as an example in Helena, you have the farmers market, the Helena and East Helena Rodeo, the Helena spring and summer fairs, Butte has a folk music festival and Evil Knieval festival, etc. #5, don't go too quickly, we have had several very promising food related businesses close recently because they tried to expand too fast. #6, offer unique items on your lunch menu so that you aren't competing with the big box franchises.


Let me know when you open. We went to Missoula to their donut shop and it was very low quality. My 5 year old son embarrassed the guy behind the counter and told me "daddy, are donuts supposed to be hard, cause my donut is like a rock", he replaced it but they still weren't very good.
Good advice. I think Alaska and Montana are similar. Almost exactly the same. We have an espresso shop on every corner and local coffee is a must for sure. Local ingrediants are a must! Good advice on the sports and rodeo. Rodeo is not an element we have here! Lol

I am pretty set on Kalispell right now but that could change! It won't be until somewhere between August and December.

Thank you again!
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Old 07-11-2016, 01:21 PM
 
726 posts, read 922,396 times
Reputation: 1319
I was just asking around town why there wasn't a real local donut shop in Kalispell. The supermarkets have donuts, and there are a few places with pastries, but there is not a true donut shop here. Nobody had an answer.

There's a big box store area in the north of town with Costco/Target/Wal-Mart which will soon have a Krispy Kreme (which I find to be grossly oversweet). That area reminds me of California but in the rest of Kalispell there are plenty of local businesses, including the quaint tiny house coffee shops everywhere. You could certainly supply those with fresh local donuts.

Don't forget you've got a couple million people visiting Glacier Park every year, so get those donuts famous and you'll cash in. And Canadians are always coming down to shop and buy gas and look down on us, but American donuts might not be French enough for their sensitive tastes.

As for politics here, this is "live and let live" territory, more libertarian than conservative in my impressions. People keep to themselves more and it can feel less friendly at first, but you realize living here gives you breathing room, literally and politically. I came from conservative middle class Southern California and the adjustment has been hard. Tough to meet new people, and the long gray winters (one day less of sun per year than Seattle) seem to drag people down.

Schools have great teachers and small classes but a lot of social issues because things are not segregated here by economic areas, so you get the kids from the "bad" side of town. On the other hand, they seem more tolerant of student diversity in terms of dress and style than we expected, which I think is just part of that live and let live mentality. Our elementary child says the kids are not friendly here. In hindsight, we probably would have chosen the local Christian private school as our child was very sheltered being raised in a conservative middle class school district in California.

Drugs are a major problem here, primarily heroin and meth. I understand the middle class prefers heroin. https://youtu.be/QYPdZ4zhGsw?t=32s . But it's better than it was a few years ago. Other than lots of petty theft I don't really hear of much crime.

Our well water is very hard so a softener is needed.

No major events here that I am aware of but lots of small scale stuff: FlatheadEvents
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Old 07-11-2016, 02:45 PM
 
1,179 posts, read 1,361,484 times
Reputation: 1868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivory Lee Spurlock View Post
It would be ok with me if all of the self-righteous, holier than thou conservative Christian right wing Republican types would move to Alaska and stay there. It would be perfect place for them. Out of sight, out of mind. A win-win for everybody.


What happened to diversity ? I guess diversity is ok only when no one disagrees with you or your views. Loser
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:55 PM
 
Location: 406
1,423 posts, read 1,536,495 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithlord72 View Post
What happened to diversity ? I guess diversity is ok only when no one disagrees with you or your views. Loser
Politically motivated transplants (i.e. conservatives) don't set their sights on Montana for its diversity, but rather, per their preconceived notions, a certain absence of diversity...as in, they want to live around (and make rules together with) people who think like them.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:11 PM
 
Location: 406
1,423 posts, read 1,536,495 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
Let me know when you open. We went to Missoula to their donut shop and it was very low quality. My 5 year old son embarrassed the guy behind the counter and told me "daddy, are donuts supposed to be hard, cause my donut is like a rock", he replaced it but they still weren't very good.
Was that Treasure State Donuts you had gone to?

If so, it has since closed down, and an Indian restaurant occupies the building now.

Krispy Kreme set up shop in Missoula fairly recently, which is actually their second go-around, as their last venture in town about ten years ago wasn't successful. To my mind, that would be the OP's main competition, save for a couple of local bakeries that, as far as I know, aren't famous for donuts.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Fairbanks
47 posts, read 35,316 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montguy View Post
Politically motivated transplants (i.e. conservatives) don't set their sights on Montana for its diversity, but rather, per their preconceived notions, a certain absence of diversity...as in, they want to live around (and make rules together with) people who think like them.


I'm not from California or the east coast looking to live a dream of rural living. I live in Alaska, born and raised, and far more rural than anything you have most likely experienced. I'm downgrading in that arena.

Please tell me how politically motivated my move is when I'm moving from a state with zero income tax, no sales tax and free gun laws.

As I said before I'm not concerned with offending you or being tolerated by you. Time to chill on political rhetoric.

Tell ya what, I'll stay out of Missoula and you stop telling me what are acceptable qualities to have in a conservative to make you happy, ok?

Last edited by REE312; 07-11-2016 at 08:35 PM..
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