Montana to Secede? (Helena, Lincoln: military, job, health)

[grizzfan]

The last time a few states seceded from the country, a large underlying factor to motivate them to take such measures was for states rights issues.

I'm sorry. Sheer lunacy. You folks need a real issue. I was born here, raised here and educated here, only leaving for 31 years to serve my Nation. The writer above is only part right. 'States rights', but to continue slavery for crying out loud!! What an assinine attempt at an analogy, but not the first attempt at it.

Listen to me. Any attempt to secede from this Nation will be met with gunfire, just like the last time. And the outcome will be the same.

Get out.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by Catsofthebase3

California could probably secede right along with Texas.

And once it is ravaged by civil/class/hippie warfare, the US can trigger that earthquake that'll finally send it into the Pacific.

Montana probably couldn't, not enough resources or brainpower to do it.

Is that a double dog dare? ;-)

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by grizzfan

I'm sorry. Sheer lunacy. You folks need a real issue. I was born here, raised here and educated here, only leaving for 31 years to serve my Nation. The writer above is only part right. 'States rights', but to continue slavery for crying out loud!! What an assinine attempt at an analogy, but not the first attempt at it.

Listen to me. Any attempt to secede from this Nation will be met with gunfire, just like the last time. And the outcome will be the same.

Get out.

What set's the stage better for slavery?

Some people that want to be left alone? Or a government that fears it's own people enough to try to make them comply with a mandatory id/tracking system for "their own protection"?

Sorry, but I don't buy the "citizen" badge... And I wore army green in my day as well.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by grizzfan

I'm sorry. Sheer lunacy. You folks need a real issue. I was born here, raised here and educated here, only leaving for 31 years to serve my Nation. The writer above is only part right. 'States rights', but to continue slavery for crying out loud!! What an assinine attempt at an analogy, but not the first attempt at it.

Listen to me. Any attempt to secede from this Nation will be met with gunfire, just like the last time. And the outcome will be the same.

Get out.

I'm glad that there are people like you that take the time out of their lives to serve their nation! I also would remind you that a bunch of rag-tag fighters beat the snot out of a well trained and organized military force when we created this country. All you have to do is get the population mad enough and it'll happen. I don't see it happening anytime soon as I do believe we've become way too comfortable and indoctrinated but when people and their families start starving enmass or just going hungry to pay taxes and such and then have more regulations thrown on what they can and can't do it is a disaster in the making. Eventually people figure "what do I have to lose"? Yes, any attempt might be met with gunfire but anyone going into such an endevor would be a big fool not to think it could be the end result.
I do have to say that once you got the dander up of the long term residents I for one wouldn't want to be on the opposite side!

[grizzfan]

I do have to say that once you got the dander up of the long term residents I for one wouldn't want to be on the opposite side!

Let's see if I understand. You are refering to the "patriots" of Jordan and its environs and other associated militia types who see black helicopters lurking just beyond the ridge? Yes, gather up the horses, round up our women and chillen and head for the hills.

Seriously, there is not enough money in the federal budget, let alone that of the newly formed "United Counties of Montana" to fund all the necessary mental health needs of the people on this thread!

[Radek]

Originally Posted by grizzfan

Let's see if I understand. You are refering to the "patriots" of Jordan and its environs and other associated militia types who see black helicopters lurking just beyond the ridge? Yes, gather up the horses, round up our women and chillen and head for the hills.

Seriously, there is not enough money in the federal budget, let alone that of the newly formed "United Counties of Montana" to fund all the necessary mental health needs of the people on this thread!

First off: Says the Griz fan (Sorry, can't help a little school pride)

Secondly, I do believe that the militia jimj was referring to would've been the continental army. A force that often starved, and survived very dreary winters in nasty locations to bring freedom to this country. And they did so against the sheer might of the british empire.

Not referring to the crisis in the middle east, where we are again seeing the fact that a well-trained guerilla army can do a lot of harm against an organized military if they're angry enough.

Or Vietnam.

Or any other numerous conflicts.

In regards to seceding from the union, the southern states decided that they didn't want big bad northern federal government interfering. And, rightfully so. The North's decision to abolish slavery wasn't based very highly on the desire that we treat other races as equals (it took what, another 100 years or so for that to happen in any significant degree?), but in their ability to control the southern colonies. The North was mostly manufacturing or skilled jobs, and slave labor was all but useless. However, the south, with all their 'unskilled' or agricultural labor had a definite use for slaves.

As a matter of fact, the Emancipation Proclamation was made by Lincoln AFTER the war had started, and was made so that they could garner the support of the middle colonies that were opposed to slavery, AND... heres the kicker. Any state that didn't secede was allowed to keep their slavery laws in tact. (Eventually these all disappeared), but the proclamation was to convince states that they needed to NOT secede from the union.


And going back historically to wars, it is very very hard to wage a war in unfriendly territory.

Now, by no means am I attempting to say that America should go to war with itself. What I am saying is that the Federal government needs to be vary aware of who's toes they are stepping on.


GoingHome: Ranchers have enough problems as it is without adding to explaining to anyone why a wolf was found shot on the edge of their property.

And in regards to the smoking ban, I think that since we are all aware and agree that smoking is harmful, its really hard to get behind that and stand up for one's personal rights.

Back to Grizzfan:
1) I for one don't think that its funny, cute, smart, witty, hilarious, chuckle-worthy or any other nice adjective you can think of, to suggest we need mental health for believing in our personal rights. For one, Mental health is NOT a laughing matter, as its something that our society sorely overlooks. For two, just because you think that 'personal rights' aren't a 'real reason' doesn't mean that we're either a) wrong in believing in it, or b) that the belief itself is a sign of mental problems.

2) Pulling the, "I was born, raised, corn-fed, blah blah blah blah blah blah crap doesn't pull any weight. If you are an american citizen, you are an american citizen and welcome to the same rights and responsibilities as me. Because, I was born and raised in the good ol' US of A.

3) Go away troll. Sorry... Grizzly troll.

[grizzfan]

Radek says:

In regards to seceding from the union, the southern states decided that they didn't want big bad northern federal government interfering. And, rightfully so. The North's decision to abolish slavery wasn't based very highly on the desire that we treat other races as equals (it took what, another 100 years or so for that to happen in any significant degree?), but in their ability to control the southern colonies. The North was mostly manufacturing or skilled jobs, and slave labor was all but useless. However, the south, with all their 'unskilled' or agricultural labor had a definite use for slaves.

As a matter of fact, the Emancipation Proclamation was made by Lincoln AFTER the war had started, and was made so that they could garner the support of the middle colonies that were opposed to slavery, AND... heres the kicker. Any state that didn't secede was allowed to keep their slavery laws in tact. (Eventually these all disappeared), but the proclamation was to convince states that they needed to NOT secede from the union.

It's clear you have taken your rationale for the Civil War (and slavery) straight from those who believe in the white supremicist movement. Next you'll probably tell us that the holocaust never occured.

I am weary of you people that have invaded this great state and have polluted it with your whacko thoughts and beliefs. The depth of your paranoia cannot be measured by me but it's plain for all to read.

The sorry fact is that this thread seems to be encouraging others of your ilk to move here. I believe you need help.

[Timberwolf232]

Grizzfan,

Radek isn't endorsing slavery, white supremacy, or passing out militia pamphlets at gun shows here. I highly doubt that he is looking for black helicopters over his shoulder either. He was just making a point. I don't think what he posted was paranoid at all.

Read the whole thread, it was started by a lady in New Jersey and turned into a discussion.

You seem to assume that people think the way you think they think without really reading what they posted. You are the one who accused people of being mentally unstable, you brought up the Jordan incident, black helicopters and white supremacists...

Who's the paranoid one here?

[grizzfan]

Yep Timberwolf232, these people really do scare me.

Check out the Missoulian Letters page for today. There is a letter there from some Montana Human Rights Network researcher. Now, those folks are definately not my cup of tea, but he brings up a couple of interesting points about this issue. Except for people named in this article, we really don't know who they are.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by grizzfan

Radek says:



It's clear you have taken your rationale for the Civil War (and slavery) straight from those who believe in the white supremicist movement. Next you'll probably tell us that the holocaust never occured.

I am weary of you people that have invaded this great state and have polluted it with your whacko thoughts and beliefs. The depth of your paranoia cannot be measured by me but it's plain for all to read.

The sorry fact is that this thread seems to be encouraging others of your ilk to move here. I believe you need help.

May I ask for some clerification Grizzfan? Exactly what that was posted by Radek would you say was wacko? What portion was paranoid? I'm only asking because I didn't see it and am wondering if I missed something. You've stated in prior threads that you had a military commission so that means you would have gone through military history schooling so what exactly was incorrect with the above referenced post?
Please be so kind as to enlighten me as to what I've not understood...