Areas where African Americans live (Billings, Missoula: sales, felons, sales tax)

[mtdave2]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Who has excluded you from celebrating with these groups? That is not true that they exclude people. They serve a need for a community and that is no different than the other ethnic groups I've named. So, should I not go to the St. Patty's Day parade in my hometown because it is celebrating an aspect of Irish culture? I don't think so. That's why diversity can be seen as a great thing, if you let it and put it into perspective.

Also, can you prove that minorities are more racist or is that just rhetoric? Again, racial classification was formed by Europeans, not "minorities". That's just a fact. So, what does one say about that? You can't take things personally though.

It seems like you are threatened by these groups for celebrating their culture. How dare they and it is o different than the many White ethnic groups that do so too. So, should those groups stop doing that or do they threaten you?

As a far as slavery, there still is slavery here in the US. Check this stuff out:09.23.2004 - Modern slavery thriving in the U.S.

iAbolish

Modern Slavery: People for Sale

Slavery in the U.S.A. (just click on a state)


As for "hating" on the US, I've served my country in the military. So, this isn't about hate, it's about getting info. out there that people aren't going to take the time to get.

ya i am excluded from these organizations, i cant join the black employee club here with the rail road, or the Latino layers association,,, and on and on. Some clubs let you join but you cant be a voting member. i am excluded from affirmative action, many government grants, and on and on and on, why? cuz i white. if that’s not racist i don’t know what is.

i want nothing more than diversity. i want all the groups cultures and colors to be "us" and "we" to all be Americans with no hyphen. it is the minorities keeping this from happing, and people who think like you do.

no its more than them celebrating their heritage. its demanding more rights that everyone else. its special privileges, special groups, affirmative action, then turning around and saying the whites are the raciest ones. it is hypocritical at best.

as far as severing your county, so it isn’t about hate, i know many people who have served and hate their country. The Funny thing is most of you don’t realize you do hate the usa and what it stands for.

yes there is still slavery in the usa, but i find it interesting you only point that out, instead of putting it in context with the rest of the world. We are still the best of the best. Slavery is open and rampant in many parts of the world but you choose not to see that, it’s not reported. It’s only the evil usa and how bad we are.

This stuff drives me nuts! Can you not see how the usa is constantly attacked and hated by a segment of or own country. Why cant you say something good about the greatness of our country.

[D11RCD]

Thank you ElkHunter and Reziac! I have spent the last couple of hours pouring over replies to the op's request and the two of you have given me the ringer I was looking for! I have had Montana on the brain for about 10 yrs. now. I am a native Californian, a "liberal" (although my idea of tree hugging requires a CAT 227 at the minimum), known as "the only black cowboy I've ever met", although all the horses I work with are in cast iron and I'm about as friendly as Casper the Ghost to everybody. Thanks to you and the posters like yourselves, I've finally come to realize that Montana really is a place for me to live. The earnest respect, the common sense and respect for the land is what I'm looking for. People who are just people, with no games, nor ulterior motives is what I need to be around. So, buck up! There's probably another Californian on the way there...chainsaw and torch in hand.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by D11RCD

Thank you ElkHunter and Reziac! I have spent the last couple of hours pouring over replies to the op's request and the two of you have given me the ringer I was looking for! I have had Montana on the brain for about 10 yrs. now. I am a native Californian, a "liberal" (although my idea of tree hugging requires a CAT 227 at the minimum), known as "the only black cowboy I've ever met", although all the horses I work with are in cast iron and I'm about as friendly as Casper the Ghost to everybody. Thanks to you and the posters like yourselves, I've finally come to realize that Montana really is a place for me to live. The earnest respect, the common sense and respect for the land is what I'm looking for. People who are just people, with no games, nor ulterior motives is what I need to be around. So, buck up! There's probably another Californian on the way there...chainsaw and torch in hand.

[falls over laughing] Howdy!! Got a couple o' dead trees in my back 40 that would take a CAT 227 to get out of the ground

"The only black cowboy I've ever met", eh? little-known historical fact: a LOT of the working cowboys who helped build the western ranchland were black. Pretty rare now simply because cowboys are a dying breed.

Hey, ever hear of Dave Stamey or Larry Maurice ?? Dave does cow-camp music and Larry does cowboy poetry. They're both very good and a lot of fun in person. Dave toured Montana earlier this month; he'll be in Jackson Hole in August. (Schedule on his website. Some of his concerts are free.) Anyway, I just had this thought that they'd fit right well with a display of cowboy art, especially if the artist was there to tell the stories behind the various pieces, or work 'em into the poetry and songs.

[ckhthankgod]

Originally Posted by mtdave2

ya i am excluded from these organizations, i cant join the black employee club here with the rail road, or the Latino layers association,,, and on and on. Some clubs let you join but you cant be a voting member. i am excluded from affirmative action, many government grants, and on and on and on, why? cuz i white. if that’s not racist i don’t know what is.

i want nothing more than diversity. i want all the groups cultures and colors to be "us" and "we" to all be Americans with no hyphen. it is the minorities keeping this from happing, and people who think like you do.

no its more than them celebrating their heritage. its demanding more rights that everyone else. its special privileges, special groups, affirmative action, then turning around and saying the whites are the raciest ones. it is hypocritical at best.

as far as severing your county, so it isn’t about hate, i know many people who have served and hate their country. The Funny thing is most of you don’t realize you do hate the usa and what it stands for.

yes there is still slavery in the usa, but i find it interesting you only point that out, instead of putting it in context with the rest of the world. We are still the best of the best. Slavery is open and rampant in many parts of the world but you choose not to see that, it’s not reported. It’s only the evil usa and how bad we are.

This stuff drives me nuts! Can you not see how the usa is constantly attacked and hated by a segment of or own country. Why cant you say something good about the greatness of our country.

So, now I "hate" the US? According to what? There is a difference in being the bes or great and challenging things that go on here. There isn't a country that is perfect. So why not challenge some of the things that go on here?

As for the groups with the RR, have you asked why they came about in the first place? Are there ethnic based group within the RR organization? If so, what are the standards with those groups? If that is the case with the organizations you named, have you brought that to the attention of those in charge?

Also, the irony with Affirmative action is that the people that have benefited the most from it are White women, not people of color. Think about it, there are as many White women in this country than all "minorities" combined or the numbers are very close. Then, with women being seen as a "minority", it almost becomes common sense, if we take for granted all are trying to get positions and so on. I work at a university and can see how this is so. When you realize that such things are really more of a gender thing than a race thing now.

As for slavery, I just pointed out something that i still realistic in our country and that the fight is not over.

[MTcountryboy]

What does "Diversity" mean (what's the real agenda anyway) and what makes it so great that it has to be forced down the throat of communities in every corner of the nation?

What's wrong with our communities as they are?

By "diversity" do you actually mean you'd be happier if Missoula looked more like "diverse" LA, complete with racial gangs killing people at random for, among many other senseless "reasons", something as trivial as being from a different ethnic group &/or trespassing in "their" ethnic turf?

Look around: most of us in W. MT at least are hienz-57s to varying degrees, descended from people from already very diverse backgrounds & nations across the globe (many of our ancestors left behind this kind of bias & bull/disease of the mind prevalent in the old world &/or back east). PS: the first permanent resident pioneer in our county was a black cowboy married to an Indian - no one today cares that he was black & apparently he was well respected in his own time (19th century).

"Diversity" is just another word for racism. Being color blind doesn't work one way: its a 2-way street. I'd suggest we forget "diversity" and just treat your neighbors like you want to be treated, rather than seeking a "[fill in the race blank] quarter"/enclave to move in with your "own kind". Those are old world & eastern (and Californian) concepts, best left behind forever.

I don't know anyone that cares if you're black, white, pink or yellow.

Just don't be a jackass, another realtor/developer, or a social re-engineering idiot. Live & let live, mind your own business, don't force change and please, please don't force your wants & whims on your neighbors and you'll be a welcome neighbor. Seems simple enough.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by MTcountryboy

By "diversity" do you actually mean you'd be happier if Missoula looked more like "diverse" LA, complete with racial gangs killing people at random for, among many other senseless "reasons", something as trivial as being from a different ethnic group &/or trespassing in "their" ethnic turf?

Little-known facts, per friends who attended affected schools: the gang wars in Los Angeles came about as a direct result of mandated school integration. Kids who were members of existing black and latino gangs (which had historically hated each other, but had hitherto seldom interacted, if only because they lived miles apart), who formerly had their own turf around their own neighbourhood schools, were now being bussed to the same schools -- because all decisions were made based on racial quotas, not on common sense, these rival gangs were forcibly made to share the same turf. Naturally they fought each other for control of this "new" turf, what did people expect?? The upshot was that gang influence grew and spread into areas that had formerly been gang-free; meanwhile, the formerly-good L.A. school system went into the crapper.

It took 20 years, and the end of forced bussing, to put a halt to the gang wars, but L.A. schools will probably never recover. And meanwhile, the gangs mutated from local hangin'-out groups to major drug dealer networks... which might never have happened if gangs hadn't been made more socially prominent by forced school integration.

You can't legislate love for your fellow man. And when you try to do so, it backfires.

"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Winston Churchill

[jimj]

Originally Posted by MTcountryboy

What does "Diversity" mean (what's the real agenda anyway) and what makes it so great that it has to be forced down the throat of communities in every corner of the nation?

What's wrong with our communities as they are?

By "diversity" do you actually mean you'd be happier if Missoula looked more like "diverse" LA, complete with racial gangs killing people at random for, among many other senseless "reasons", something as trivial as being from a different ethnic group &/or trespassing in "their" ethnic turf?

Look around: most of us in W. MT at least are hienz-57s to varying degrees, descended from people from already very diverse backgrounds & nations across the globe (many of our ancestors left behind this kind of bias & bull/disease of the mind prevalent in the old world &/or back east). PS: the first permanent resident pioneer in our county was a black cowboy married to an Indian - no one today cares that he was black & apparently he was well respected in his own time (19th century).

"Diversity" is just another word for racism. Being color blind doesn't work one way: its a 2-way street. I'd suggest we forget "diversity" and just treat your neighbors like you want to be treated, rather than seeking a "[fill in the race blank] quarter"/enclave to move in with your "own kind". Those are old world & eastern (and Californian) concepts, best left behind forever.

I don't know anyone that cares if you're black, white, pink or yellow.

Just don't be a jackass, another realtor/developer, or a social re-engineering idiot. Live & let live, mind your own business, don't force change and please, please don't force your wants & whims on your neighbors and you'll be a welcome neighbor. Seems simple enough.

Exactly.

[Lucario]

Originally Posted by AQHA

I'm not a transplant, my family has ranched here for generations, I just know the problems that come with racial mixing. That sounds terrible but its true. I tried to explain it kindly in another post but it was taken off by an admin.

The private reply the original poster sent me was racist and hateful but I am just telling the facts the way they are. Many Montana folks like the fact that it is a white state. I dont say that as an attack to anyone.

Dang. I thought this was City-Data.com, not Stormfront.

[Kristynwy]

This is a second reminder to please stay on topic to some of the posters who have participated in this thread... if you want to debate racial equality or inequality that is what the Politics and Other Controversies forum is for thanks

[wayward1]

I visited Montana in 2006 with friends on an 18 day motorcycle tour. Most time was spent in western Montana. Had to respond to this thread as a Black American (I'm realy a redish brown American) person with Germen, French, Cherokee, and Appalachian heritage. I have always referred to myself as American plain and simple. My visit to Montana with my Italian friends and my German / Appalachian partner was one of the best trips in all of our lives. We found Montana and Red Lodge in particular as one of the greatest places on earth. We were never treated better and loved every minute spent there. We have all conversed on how to get back there to call the area home and are currently putting our long term plans in place. In 18 days spent all over the area and in Wyoming we never once faced any “racism” and we look like a delegation of the United Nations motorcycle brigade. Congratulations to the state of Montana for being one of the most beautiful, easygoing and friendliest places I have ever been and see you again soon!