Gotta get outta Texas

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by elkslayin

Tin, I am not responsible for the bloated salaries and bennys of the UAW. They are losing their jobs b/c the federal goburment and UAW have a strangle hold on the auto industry. The bailout comes with strings attached, in the form of increased federal regulation. The fed won't even release where the last bailout cash went, and you want to support more? I do not subscribe to the theory that increased federal regulation and organized labor is the best recipe for the revitalization of the auto industry. File chap 13, re-organize, slap the UAW in the arse, and tell the fed to get the hell out of private business, that is the correct avenue.

I think the general evidence is they are losing their jobs because people arent buying their cars. That reason isnt their increased costs due to unions (which is fairly insignificant to the consumer), its

1- The economy is bad and money is tight
2- The cars are inefficient. The reasons for this is because not too long ago, many people were on the 'we dont need to think green/efficient' bandwagon ignoring our dependence on oil. I wont point fingers to public officials, but lets just say they were of the outgoing groups ranks.
3- Even without unions, we cant make cars as cheap as china and india. If you lowered every worker to a dollar below minimum wage and got rid of unions, they would still be able to create cars at half our price. They have a larger cheaper labor base.

Blaming unions is pointless. Look at Euro car sales. Their unions are stronger and collect higher dues, yet they are able to sell better than we can. Its not the unions bringing us down, its the level of consumption and cost of overall labor.

I am not calling you out Tin. Montana is what it is, and if you don't like that, stay in Minnesota. If the guy down the street is a racist, then that is his business, not mine. If the lady in the store is a bigot, that is her constitutional right. Heres a little fact for you, we all discriminate on one basis or another. I am not friends with everybody in Montana, b/c some folks I don't want to be around for whatever reason. Personally, skin color is not a criteria for me, but if it is for other folks so be it. I try to surround myself with decent folks I can trust around my family. If my neighbor needs a hand I will be there for him, and I know he would return the favor.

If it turns out that montana does in fact have a larger percentage of such people, I may decide not to move there (looking at other places as well)..

Im not arguing the obvious flaws of prejudice. I will say that if I were to decide to move there, I have no problem at all with people having whatever pre-concepts about me for whatever reason. I would have problems with people who take it upon themselves to harrass me or members of my family, whether verbally or physically, for such a reason. That is one of the reasons I chose to leave Texas (the others being, just as the thread creator, the heat, the traffic, and the attitudes).

I believe, as a libertarian, everyone has a right to their own freedoms, but when that freedom crosses the line of my families or my freedoms, thats where 'live and let live' ends. This is all America, and no person has the right to legally restrict another or attack without prevocation another anyone in our great republic, regardless of the reasons.

[elkslayin]

Actually, Tin, all three CEO's said they were having trouble competing starting in 1995, and it was one of the three major problems facing auto makers. One must ask, if they can't solve the competition problem over the course of 13 years, how can they do it with bailout money today? Understand also that pensions are not included in the cost figures that we have seen broken out in the cost per auto scenerios, which is currrently, about 6-10x that of Japanese auto makers. If you are a libertarian as you claim, I would think the government intervention in private business would conflict with your political ideolgy. However, I give you the last word as this is an argument for a different thread.
As for part 2 of your post, I see no real disagreement b/w us or any other Montanan. You can bet if the racist down the street comes after me or my family for whatever reason, he will be met with prompt and deadly force. As long as he is minding his own business, I really don't care what he believes. Again, I think most Montanans fall into that catagory.