This Californian moving to Montana (a few comments) (Missoula, Great Falls: new home, promotional)

[YOU-CANT-EAT-SCENERY]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

As I've said in some previous post, Montana isn't, contrary to what some people on the forum would lead out to beleive, is not the most beautfull place in the world. There are plenty of others.

That is true.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but sometimes you don't know if you'll like it, till you try it

[mindsman]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Not really, lots of places have witness decreasing sizes in population growth, now those are the place you want to move to.
Acutally the falicy is the people say "you can't stop growth"......but they are the first people who seem to think they can increase it if you promote it, your state/town. Seems they beleive that they can actually effect the outcome.
So if one does nothing else to control growth they should not encourge it with those promotions campagnes, I guess you could run a negative campagen saying "don't move here" if you beleive that the "move here" one can have an effect on people......
So stop falling for that it's "inevitable" and "you can stop it" kind of thinking.

You have convinced me to move to Montana. All your negative remarks and yet you still live there means I am moving there. The depression of the 90's made me realize I will move where I want and live legally as I want. Im sure your a big fan of Robert Redford. I'm sure the Indians had the same idea as you yet you kicked them out huh? grow up you don't own Montana.

[JoeJoeMan]

You have convinced me to move to Montana. All your negative remarks and yet you still live there means I am moving there. The depression of the 90's made me realize I will move where I want and live legally as I want. Im sure your a big fan of Robert Redford. I'm sure the Indians had the same idea as you yet you kicked them out huh? grow up you don't own Montana.

Now you weren't paying attention to a word I said. NEVER SAID I owned Motana or implied that, infact if you read my post you would have read where I said things quite to the contrary about people needing to move here.
I realize I'm throwing a wet blanket on some people with my opinions, those people being the ones who either directly or indirectly make a buck off of promoting growth in Montana, and the second group is the "wanna move to Montana" people.....
Sorry to hear about your 90's depression sir, please feel free to move any where you want. It's not my place to tell anyone what to do.
All I tried to do in my post is explain to people that whole character of our state is deteiorating fast. Some people care and some don't. Some think growth is wonderfull and some don't. Remember one thing though, Californina use to be as nice as Montana, so did Colorado, Now people want to leave them because they did there what is now happening here. I should think that that isn't such a hard thing to understand.
To sum up what I've said:
I don't mind people moving to montana, if you have family matters here, if you get transfered in your job, that's life welcome to montana. On the other hand if you are just looking for a place to live, you've probably choosen Motana for certain reason, and let me guess...for it's openess and country and outdoors......and what I trying to tell you is that those qualities are disappearing fast around here, some say it's happened already. Montana is a pretty big place but alot of that is places where most people don't live and don't want to live so places like Bitterroot valley are just being overrun, dug up and built upon.
The reason people move here are evaporating fast. I guarantte if you move here to enjoy the outdoors, after a few short years you will be saying "geez this road is busy now, and what are all those cars doing parked by my fishing spot" I guarentte it.
So what am I telling you....One, if you enjoy those type of things, find a place that suites your needs and is not experiencing the growth problems we have here. You'll do yourself a favor and us too. Not to mention buying a place to live will be ALOT cheaper in those as of yet not over-run places.
The second thing I'm trying to do is wake people up to the fact that all this growth in the end isn't doing anyone any good at all.
In as short a time period as one generation, places like Colorado, Oregon, etc., have turned from place that people want to move to into places they can't wait to get out of.........and Montana is rapidly following in those foot steps.
PS I can't leave, I'm to old to start life over, even if I did want to leave my friends and relations behind

[YOU-CANT-EAT-SCENERY]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Remember one thing though, Californina use to be as nice as Montana, so did Colorado, Now people want to leave them because they did there what is now happening here.

You mean illegals are moving by the millions to MT too Guess I might as well stay here

Most people don't want out of California because of what your perception is of what's happening in MT. To some degree it is (trafffic, smog, to many people, etc.), but for me it's more of the illegal immigration issue, and the brutally hot/humid summers. Those are the top 2 reasons for me.
Traffic I can deal with...I just don't go anywhere, or I plan carefully around the time of day I go. When I go to work, I actually look forward to Wednesdays, because that is the one day I can actually have a conversation in english with one of my co-workers.

[JoeJoeMan]

John,
I think that whole illegal/invader thing is pretty sad, I'm sure it not as bad here, but there are some even up here. I think I heard that they actually bust some of them.
What a sad country we live in when our own leaders won't even protect our own borders, how sick is that.
I wish you well, and hope you find what you are looking for.

[Heart]

Wow! I didn't expect to venture back to the board and find so many interesting responses. Thank you everyone.

First, I wanted to share this: I phoned a health care center to speak with them the other day. The receptionist said, "I see you're calling from the Bay Area, is that right? Why would you ever want to leave there?!" I simply said, "Why not!"

Sandy, I feel as you do, when it comes to home ownership, and the costs of living in Ca. I have been beyond disheartened this week. I pay $1090 per month for a small 2 bedroom apartment in what is considered a "nice" area of town. We recently had a shooting at our complex, which was random, where 3 people were gunned down in the parking lot. Two adults and a 6 year old girl. I cried like a baby for a few days over it. I cannot allow my daughter outside here anymore. I won't. We go out of the city now to a quiet out of the way play ground now. This is not "living" and I'm counting the days until we move this spring.

I must say I have gotten used to the mild weather of CA, but at the same time I'm a winter person who loves the cold and the snow. I feel odd not having that in my life out here, including thunder and lightening storms.

Reading through the posts which depict the western area of Montana as developing into urban sprawl makes me sad. As a girl who went fishing and hunting with my father up in Alaska, catching fresh salmon and living off of the land, it is absolutely saddening to read of the locals in Montana, being unable to access their fishing or hunting spots. It should not be this way at all.

My in laws recently sent me a paper from the Missoulian and my heart sank looking at all of the property owners and a few fancy shmancy apartment complexes. I refuse to live somewhere that has one of those fancy titles LOL
I have had enough of that here.

And as far as the beauty of California goes, the only place I found great peace and beauty in was driving along hwy 1, all along the coast....with the grand ocean beside me. That will be the only thing I miss of California.

We are simple folks who want a simple life, in peace...and we love the land. We respect it and the locals who have already been there, and the generational families.

[Absaroka]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Now you weren't paying attention to a word I said. NEVER SAID I owned Motana or implied that, infact if you read my post you would have read where I said things quite to the contrary about people needing to move here.
I realize I'm throwing a wet blanket on some people with my opinions, those people being the ones who either directly or indirectly make a buck off of promoting growth in Montana, and the second group is the "wanna move to Montana" people.....
Sorry to hear about your 90's depression sir, please feel free to move any where you want. It's not my place to tell anyone what to do.
All I tried to do in my post is explain to people that whole character of our state is deteiorating fast. Some people care and some don't. Some think growth is wonderfull and some don't. Remember one thing though, Californina use to be as nice as Montana, so did Colorado, Now people want to leave them because they did there what is now happening here. I should think that that isn't such a hard thing to understand.
To sum up what I've said:
I don't mind people moving to montana, if you have family matters here, if you get transfered in your job, that's life welcome to montana. On the other hand if you are just looking for a place to live, you've probably choosen Motana for certain reason, and let me guess...for it's openess and country and outdoors......and what I trying to tell you is that those qualities are disappearing fast around here, some say it's happened already. Montana is a pretty big place but alot of that is places where most people don't live and don't want to live so places like Bitterroot valley are just being overrun, dug up and built upon.
The reason people move here are evaporating fast. I guarantte if you move here to enjoy the outdoors, after a few short years you will be saying "geez this road is busy now, and what are all those cars doing parked by my fishing spot" I guarentte it.
So what am I telling you....One, if you enjoy those type of things, find a place that suites your needs and is not experiencing the growth problems we have here. You'll do yourself a favor and us too. Not to mention buying a place to live will be ALOT cheaper in those as of yet not over-run places.
The second thing I'm trying to do is wake people up to the fact that all this growth in the end isn't doing anyone any good at all.
In as short a time period as one generation, places like Colorado, Oregon, etc., have turned from place that people want to move to into places they can't wait to get out of.........and Montana is rapidly following in those foot steps.
PS I can't leave, I'm to old to start life over, even if I did want to leave my friends and relations behind

Cheers to you my friend. In ten years all the transplants will be moving somewhere else talking about how bad western Montana is. When they are the ones running it. Move to the front range if you want mountains...Colorado is already ruined.

[JoeJoeMan]

Heart,
It is really sad to hear about how bad it is there. And sadly it is not new news, it's has become a way of life in america, even in Montana, not as bad I would imagine here, but not for lack of trying, give us time, or should I say give 'them' time.
The same thing happened to my family when I was just a baby boy, our town was turned into a sewer, a human sewer. We were poor, as were most of the folks that lived there then, my parents heard "we don't hire people of your ethnic group", still they never took that as an excuse to prayer on other people, nor did the other people in the community, they had a sense of decency about them, that all changed in a very short period of time with the new types that moved in.
Even though I only spent a few years there as a child, to this day I could never go back and walk the streets my parents were born, as I'd be, without exageration, taking my life in my hands. My mother for the rest of her life could never go back and visit her sister's grave, not only was it to unsafe but the cemetary was vandalized and fenced shut.
Having lived my life, and looking back, it's amazing to see how fast, in the span of one generation, a place can degenerate so fast. And that is what scares me with what I see going on in Montana these days, it has changed so so much in the last dozen or so years.

[fbcobrn]

[quote=Heart;327825]And as far as the beauty of California goes, the only place I found great peace and beauty in was driving along hwy 1, all along the coast....with the grand ocean beside me. That will be the only thing I miss of California. QUOTE]

That's what I also will miss the most! PCH to the North...Mendocino, Bodega Bay, Jenner. Camping along this coast. Too rich for my peasant blood though to live. My muscles go limp as soon as I leave Petaluma(2 hour drive from where I now live). I can smell the ocean. But...Having mapquested the route to Coos Bay, Oregon from Hamilton, aaahhhhhhhhhhhhh...merely a day's drive to the ocean.

[orygun]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

The second thing I'm trying to do is wake people up to the fact that all this growth in the end isn't doing anyone any good at all.
In as short a time period as one generation, places like Colorado, Oregon, etc., have turned from place that people want to move to into places they can't wait to get out of.........and Montana is rapidly following in those foot steps.

This is SO right on. We lived in Oregon for 18 years and came to MT last year. Oregon's strict land use laws kept the massive subdivisions in check for a long time, though growth is really taking off there now. MT on the other hand is really beginning to sprawl with new homes in the country. In this short time we have been here we have seen so many new homes in the Bitterroot. And there seems to be no stopping it now. A 600 home subdivision planned near Hamilton. Don't forget Aspen Springs attempt to build near Florence. In just one year I have been horrified at what I have seen. Now Plum Creek Timber is turning real estate and it is going to get real ugly. I even heard about subdivisions proposed near Superior. Many places have problems with growth but of all the years in Oregon I have never seen anything like the pace of uncontrolled growth like I am seeing here. I love Montana for the wide open spaces, the casual pace of life, the kind neighbors and the diversity of the land. But I see it changing so fast and it is really sad. Just let Maclay open his Bitterroot resort and there will be no hope. It's all about money as far as I can tell too. Get rich quick by selling land. But don't expect to be a regular working person and be able to live in Western Montana or over by Bozeman.

We are heading to Spokane this month. Mostly for economic reasons. Even my work as an RN isn't stable enough here. Can't pay the bills. Real estate is actually cheaper in Spokane and it doesn't seem too bad for a city. I will miss Montana because I know Washington isn't the same. Yet, financial viability while I raise four kids is a necessity. I will envy all those who are able to find their peace and quality of life in MT as long as that survives.