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Old 02-10-2007, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Golden Valley AZ
777 posts, read 3,086,378 times
Reputation: 279

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Quote:
Originally Posted by orygun View Post
And there seems to be no stopping it now. A 600 home subdivision planned near Hamilton. Don't forget Aspen Springs attempt to build near Florence. In just one year I have been horrified at what I have seen.

You think 600 homes is bad...and it is for that area I'm sure, But we are getting 250,000 home subdivision in the Chino Valley area of Southern California. Basically some developer(s) bought out all the dairy farms (don't know where they went to) and now we get even more sprawl and traffic on our already overtaxed freeway (why do they call it a freeway, when it doesn't move) system. Thats 1/4 of the entire population of MT, in an area about the same size or a little smaller than the Bitterroot Valley.
I'm not downplaying your growth at all, because it is sad. It is disheartening to hear what I am trying to get away from here, is happening there also ;(
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Old 02-10-2007, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
529 posts, read 1,826,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johns65vette View Post
You think 600 homes is bad...and it is for that area I'm sure, But we are getting 250,000 home subdivision in the Chino Valley area of Southern California. Basically some developer(s) bought out all the dairy farms (don't know where they went to) and now we get even more sprawl and traffic on our already overtaxed freeway (why do they call it a freeway, when it doesn't move) system. Thats 1/4 of the entire population of MT, in an area about the same size or a little smaller than the Bitterroot Valley.
I'm not downplaying your growth at all, because it is sad. It is disheartening to hear what I am trying to get away from here, is happening there also ;(
Considering the actual size of the Bitterroot Valley..... it's pretty narrow, as far as valleys go..... building a 600 home sub would be devastating.

If you saw how small the Bitterroot Valley really is..... you would most likely throw your arms up in disgust as well...... (you can drive from one side of it to the other in 10 minutes or less..... it's that small.)



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Old 02-10-2007, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Golden Valley AZ
777 posts, read 3,086,378 times
Reputation: 279
Dang, now WY is beginning to look better and better. Seems they have growth in areas, but not like MT is experiencing.
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Old 02-10-2007, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
529 posts, read 1,826,581 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by johns65vette View Post
Dang, now WY is beginning to look better and better. Seems they have growth in areas, but not like MT is experiencing.

There are "targeted areas" that out of state development companies have.
They point to these areas and fill them up...... using the same unethical practices that they used in California.... it's all about the money... it's that simple..... nevermind who has to clean up the mess.

Now, if you are truly interested in coming to Montana, then you don't necessrily "have to settle" for the Bitterroot.

The Bitterroot is only one place....... Montana has many places, much like the Bitterroot, that out of state developers can't get into, mostly because many other counties in Montana has wised up to them by now, and won't let them in......

I'll suggest the Meagher County, Montana area.......
If you want to know what the Bitterroot "used to look like"..... then pay a visit to White Sulphur Springs....... you'll see....... and, it's not far from anything you're ever going to need once you get here.
It has all of the mountains, trees, friendly folks, winter and summer recreation, and more so than even the Bitterroot has..... and the beauty of it all??.... "No Subdivisions".... none, zero, squat....... There are "real towns" there, so you might do well to check it out.....

As an added note....
We here might be considered to be a bunch-o-dumb-flatlanders, but we've got the goods on the very best places....
We who have lived all of our lives here, know so much more about this place than any high minded promotional company ever could in a hundred years..... obviously so, as they keep on promoting the same ole areas that are, incidently, ruined beyond repair......

The Bitterroot is finished, done, kapoot.... It's turned into the same place most of you are so desparately trying to leave.... So why bother with it?
Bozeman's the same way..... Folks come here looking for "the good simple life", only to find themselves desparately trying to bail out of Bozeman as quickly as possible...... trust me... it's not coming up all roses for those poor folks who were lied to by the promotional companies, internet ezines, and out of state developers...... Anyone worth his salt knows better than to send someone looking for simplicity into Bozeman..... Hype about Montana has caused more problems, than can ever be solved for most folks just looking for a better life.....

Counties in Montana are wising up to the deceptions of the out of state development companies, and while they are zeroed in on places like the Bitterroot, Missoula, and Flathead valleys, our counties are passing ordinances that will prohibit those from out of state from exploiting or otherwise raping our lands...... Doors are being closed on those who would dare to ruin things here for us here in Montana.
Might be too late for places like Bozeman, Missoula and Kalispell, but it's not too late for many other areas in the state.
Do you want to build in Montana??..... Well then you are most welcome to, just so long as your $1,800.00 LLC isn't a front for some other larger company that exists outside of the state's borders......

We are fixing things, and quickly, I might add....... What's been going on in the Bitterroot, won't occur here, as local county laws will prohibit it..... We aren't about to be yucking up to those who would wish to destroy what they did in the Bitterroot.

Last edited by GiftShoppeGuy; 02-10-2007 at 11:30 AM..
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:30 PM
 
174 posts, read 915,889 times
Reputation: 74
Unhappy Perception of growth

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy View Post
We are fixing things, and quickly, I might add....... What's been going on in the Bitterroot, won't occur here, as local county laws will prohibit it..... We aren't about to be yucking up to those who would wish to destroy what they did in the Bitterroot.
It's funny the perception of what growth is. Like a 600 home subdivision is nothing compared to 250,000 homes though the realities of each place are different like the narrow valley fact in the Bitterroot. When we came from Oregon to Montana we couldn't figure out what the complaining was all about. It seemed so quiet here compared to the Willamette Valley. Once I drove I-90 east of here I gained some understanding of what people were losing in the Bitterroot. When we came home it did look busy here.

Now, one year later, I understand more. After talking to the people who have lived here a long time, seeing houses built faster than the mind can comprehend, and hearing more and more about subdivisions popping up. Stevensville remains a nice small town I think, though people say it has grown a lot. The people are very friendly and it still has a quaint feel to it. But I can see the change already in the people here. Just a year ago, more people were waving as you passed them on the side roads. Now more people are on cell phones and just zipping from one place to another. I knew the Bitterroot was growing fast when we came so I didn't have my eyese shut. It just happened to be what worked out for us. Now that we are leaving, I will miss the beauty here a lot. I think the Bitterroots are some of the most beautiful mountains. But there are other mountain ranges in the state elsewhere that are just as nice.

I have looked at housing in Helena and recently it seems like it is taking off too. Anyone know anything about growth over there?
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
529 posts, read 1,826,581 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orygun View Post
It's funny the perception of what growth is. Like a 600 home subdivision is nothing compared to 250,000 homes though the realities of each place are different like the narrow valley fact in the Bitterroot. When we came from Oregon to Montana we couldn't figure out what the complaining was all about. It seemed so quiet here compared to the Willamette Valley. Once I drove I-90 east of here I gained some understanding of what people were losing in the Bitterroot. When we came home it did look busy here.

Now, one year later, I understand more. After talking to the people who have lived here a long time, seeing houses built faster than the mind can comprehend, and hearing more and more about subdivisions popping up. Stevensville remains a nice small town I think, though people say it has grown a lot. The people are very friendly and it still has a quaint feel to it. But I can see the change already in the people here. Just a year ago, more people were waving as you passed them on the side roads. Now more people are on cell phones and just zipping from one place to another. I knew the Bitterroot was growing fast when we came so I didn't have my eyese shut. It just happened to be what worked out for us. Now that we are leaving, I will miss the beauty here a lot. I think the Bitterroots are some of the most beautiful mountains. But there are other mountain ranges in the state elsewhere that are just as nice.

I have looked at housing in Helena and recently it seems like it is taking off too. Anyone know anything about growth over there?

In 2000, Helena had a median family income of $50,018. People in Helena make a good living.
Lewis And Clark County straddles the Rockies (great divide)

In 1999 Helena was 89 miles from us, now it's 71 miles away.... Great Falls is growing south, likewise, Helena is growing north......
We are experiencing growth at various rates throughout the state. albeit, nothing here is being ruined faster than the Bitterroot Valley. (or Bozeman)

Helena isn't growing as fast as, say, the Mineral, Lincoln, Flathead, Missoula, Ravalli County areas, because it isn't targeted as heavily... but, it is growing.

You may do very well in Helena. The valley is much larger and there is more sunshine throughout the winter months. You still have plenty of mountains to look at, explore and play in. There is also more public access in and around Helena. Jobs pay much higher than those of Missoula or Ravalli Counties. You must remember though, Helena is located on an interstate (I-15) and in Montana, it's usually the areas close to interstates that get the whammy on real estate promos.

I would hate to see you have to leave Montana. You've got your foot in the door more than most who visit these forums.
Sure, folks run around in Helena with cell phones growing out of their heads, just like in the Bitterroot, but, new legislation will hopefully change all of that at the state level..... afterall, how can a person be expected to wave at you with an added appendage like that of a cell phone sticking "out of their body"?

I remember Stevi. A simple place once...... if you like it now, you would have just loved it 20 years ago.

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Old 02-10-2007, 01:42 PM
 
174 posts, read 915,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy View Post
I would hate to see you have to leave Montana. You've got your foot in the door more than most who visit these forums.
Sure, folks run around in Helena with cell phones growing out of their heads, just like in the Bitterroot, but, new legislation will hopefully change all of that at the state level..... afterall, how can a person be expected to wave at you with an added appendage like that of a cell phone sticking "out of their body"?

I remember Stevi. A simple place once...... if you like it now, you would have just loved it 20 years ago.

I really love Montana. Have for a long time. This was a very hard decision. My work at CMC in Missoula has been a fairly bad experience compared to my last job. That has propelled me out of here. I checked into some jobs in Helena. One was an office nurse job with pay around $19/hour. That really isn't enough for a single mom with four kids. The hospital probably pays better there but they have the same 12 hour shifts that I am trying to get away from. I started nursing on 8-hour shifts and want that back. We could have chose Great Falls and I did think about it. But honestly, I didn't know that I wanted to live with the wind over there. So at this point I am thinking we will vacation over here and maybe someday when the kids are grown, I will come back. You know I was seriously looking at the Big Hole Valley. Little hospital down there had an opening. I did get a job offer in Kalispell but turned it down because I fear it is the same thing with a wage not enough to support the housing costs there.

Was Stevi once like Victor?
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Old 02-10-2007, 02:08 PM
 
495 posts, read 443,378 times
Reputation: 96
Default humm

I see am not the only with such sentiments....sorry to hear of you situation orygun, you sound like the kind of person that montana is about.
I'd like to start a state wide campaing......with a bumper sticker that says "GROWTH SUCKS"
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Great Falls, Montana
529 posts, read 1,826,581 times
Reputation: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by orygun View Post
I really love Montana. Have for a long time. This was a very hard decision. My work at CMC in Missoula has been a fairly bad experience compared to my last job. That has propelled me out of here. I checked into some jobs in Helena. One was an office nurse job with pay around $19/hour. That really isn't enough for a single mom with four kids. The hospital probably pays better there but they have the same 12 hour shifts that I am trying to get away from. I started nursing on 8-hour shifts and want that back. We could have chose Great Falls and I did think about it. But honestly, I didn't know that I wanted to live with the wind over there. So at this point I am thinking we will vacation over here and maybe someday when the kids are grown, I will come back. You know I was seriously looking at the Big Hole Valley. Little hospital down there had an opening. I did get a job offer in Kalispell but turned it down because I fear it is the same thing with a wage not enough to support the housing costs there.

Was Stevi once like Victor?

Well I sure wish you could stick it out.

Great Falls??... Made for kids..... we've got a ton of them, and another ton on top of that.

We're all about community over here and in parts east.

Missoula??... well, I'd be hard pressed to determine what they're all about anymore these days. One thing I'm dead certain of though, is that where you are now..... Kids will never rule supreme like they do over here in the "real Montana".

Communities west of the CD have somehow lost their sense of good direction... it's as if they are following the cow around the pasture..... Working in Missoula is much like working in little Russia...... everyone's got a power trip or something going on over there.

Don't know if you've tried Benefis or not, and if not, then do look into it.
It's "the largest" and most "well equipped" hospital in the entire state of Montana......

Housing costs here are also just a drop in the bucket compared to where you are now too....
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Old 02-10-2007, 05:14 PM
 
Location: 55 Miles East of Sanity :D
791 posts, read 1,770,305 times
Reputation: 812
Thumbs up Good Thread!

Hi Gang,

Just wanted to tell you all how much I enjoyed reading this thread. Although we're not planning to move to MT, Whew! we are planning to move out of CA. Reading this thread brought many good points to my attention and has me thinking about what to do.

Although we never intended to buy a new home in a new subdivision, we're now leaning more to buying an old, small home on as much land as we can afford. Something that's been there a long time. And wherever we go, we will 'do as the romans do', and try to add & contribute to the community, and not detract from it.

I'm struggling with the fact that I don't want to help create in a new town, what I'm trying to escape in the one I'm leaving. Ya know? It is important to me, as corny as it may sound, that we make this move as seamless as possible.

We're currently in Northern CA, so you don't have to tell me about overcrowding and urban sprawl!! Lord Have Mercy! But, because of that, I can comiserate with you on the consequences it brings...all for the sake of the All Mighty Dollar! And then who's left to deal with the aftermath?????

And Johns65vette, I'm witchya on your reasons for leaving too. For me, it's an out of control outrage and 100000% unacceptable. But, I won't get on that soapbox right now.

Guess I just wanted to say that I hear your concerns about growth, and can understand your plight. I just hope that whatever we end up doing, I hope it is done in a way that we won't be part of the problem, but perhaps, part of the solution. Thank you all for the honesty in your words. That's what this is all about...the Good, Bad, Ugly and the Reality of it all.

Keep up the good fight guys....it'll be worth it, because after all....Freedom isn't free.

Thanks for listening,
Boof

PS:
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJoeMan-I'd like to start a state wide campaing......with a bumper sticker that says "GROWTH SUCKS"
Ya know...you could probably get some printed up fairly cheaply...you should do it, and see if it catches on.
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