This Californian moving to Montana (a few comments) (Missoula, Great Falls: estate, housing)

[orygun]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

I see am not the only with such sentiments....sorry to hear of you situation orygun, you sound like the kind of person that montana is about.
I'd like to start a state wide campaing......with a bumper sticker that says "GROWTH SUCKS"

Thanks. I like to think I blend right into what real Montana is. Montana is in my blood for some reason. I remember seeing something in Oregon that said Progress: The Path of Fools. Could be Growth: The Path of Fools for a bumper sticker!

[orygun]

Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy

Well I sure wish you could stick it out.

Great Falls??... Made for kids..... we've got a ton of them, and another ton on top of that.

We're all about community over here and in parts east.

Missoula??... well, I'd be hard pressed to determine what they're all about anymore these days. One thing I'm dead certain of though, is that where you are now..... Kids will never rule supreme like they do over here in the "real Montana".

Communities west of the CD have somehow lost their sense of good direction... it's as if they are following the cow around the pasture..... Working in Missoula is much like working in little Russia...... everyone's got a power trip or something going on over there.

Don't know if you've tried Benefis or not, and if not, then do look into it.
It's "the largest" and most "well equipped" hospital in the entire state of Montana......

Housing costs here are also just a drop in the bucket compared to where you are now too....

Yeah, I had a hard time facing a move out. Though what is nice about moving away, is that a move back is always possible too! I am glad Montana will still be just a hop skip and a jump away.

Great Falls sounds, well, Great! We had a traveling nurse from GF come to Missoula and she thought our hospital was the pits and she couldn't wait to go back home.

Kids don't seem to be in abundance around here. Missoula seems to be mostly about drinking and partying. Have a friend in Oregon who is from GF who said that same thing about the area. It reminds me of Eugene, Oregon on a smaller scale. And you are SO right about the power trip thing. A co-worker from Texas and I talk about that exact same thing. It permeates the hospital too. Their way is the best and only way. After a couple months I gave up on helping anything change. I guess maybe Missoula is just a typical college town. What I like best about it here is the location to outdoor recreation. We love hiking. And all the horses around here is cool because we have horses too. Livingston is another area of the state I like. I think it is prime for booming over there though. So close to Bozeman. You know it does seem to grow less on the reservations. Does anyone know if that is true? Like the
Flathead seems to have quite a bit of space left compared to the Bitterroot. You know I almost went to check out a job in little Choteau.

[JoeJoeMan]

Boof..............you've got the right idea, find a place that fits you and then just kinda blend into the surrounds.
I think I mentioned it before but Missoula has more dogs than children, I'm dead serious, just walk down the street and count the dogs and count the children. Dogs are very trendy now, you know, all the 'beautiful people' posses them, and one just isn't enough anymore.
The dogs **** everywhere, bite people, get in fights and the town won't do a damn'd thing about it, except talk, talk, talk. There were something like 100 dog bites reported last year, and get this, 3 tickets handed out all year, the dog department said they needed more money they were understaffed, they have 3 people, by my arithmatic that's ONE ticket a year per employee they wrote, yup they're really doing their part.
Basiscaly no one wants to be the big meany to pick on cute little pouchie, because it won't "Make them feel good about themselves"......it's that whole feel good hippie attitude.
They have this campagin now to "empower the petestrians" and bicyclist. the advise people to just step off the curb at a corner when you want to cross and cars are expected to stop, now people are stepping out in the middle of the street all the time, bicycles go right down the middle of the busy streets.....well needless to say more than a couple people have been killed, not sh*t, they get wacked left and right, a lady got killed by a semi-tractor trailor downtown in broad daylight, the truck was only doing 15 mph. People drag their kids around in those little carts in back of their bikes down busy main streets, inches from traffic.
It is really unbelievable how stupid people are in Missoula, old hippies still in a purple haze, not an ounce of common sense left. They do the peace demonstrations on the bridge, too whether you're for the war or not GROWUP, with the peace grap already. The 60's will never die in missoula, old ladies with crew cuts and tatooes, grandpa's with pony tails.....and they are SO proud of their homosexual community, you know, yes the are very pregresive thinkers mind you. Much more enlightened than us common slops.
They think they are so on top of it with their bakeries and resturants, and outside of one or two good places the rest just absolutly suck. Sorry to rag on them, but they are such a group of self absurped and self indulgent has beens.
But anyway I've digressed, Missoula just cracks me up, they just think they are so progressive, and they're just a bunch of air heads, with dumb ideas that get people killed like the pesdestrians I afore mentioned.
The town changed a major 4 lane street into two lanes because they said it would improve traffic.....DAH, and now it's a huge mess and everyone is complaining, but they can't just change it back, they have to get everyone involed do planning, take public comments.....GEEZ......how stupid can you get. light up another one....."don't bogort that joint my friend"..............

[mountainme]

Livingston is another area of the state I like. I think it is prime for booming over there though. So close to Bozeman. You know it does seem to grow less on the reservations. Does anyone know if that is true? [/quote]


I live in Livingston, and well it is much more expensive than it used to be, and there are some subdivisions planned, sigh, but still not nearly as bad as boze...sure it has its influence, its too close not to, but this town likes to remain independent of Bozeman. I think to pass between here and there and the weather (its just a little windy here) keeps people out, kind of, but for how long...but its such a sweet town, theres been a lot of juvenille crime lately, not sure what that means...

[Heart]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Boof..............you've got the right idea, find a place that fits you and then just kinda blend into the surrounds.
I think I mentioned it before but Missoula has more dogs than children, I'm dead serious, just walk down the street and count the dogs and count the children. Dogs are very trendy now, you know, all the 'beautiful people' posses them, and one just isn't enough anymore.
The dogs **** everywhere, bite people, get in fights and the town won't do a damn'd thing about it, except talk, talk, talk. There were something like 100 dog bites reported last year, and get this, 3 tickets handed out all year, the dog department said they needed more money they were understaffed, they have 3 people, by my arithmatic that's ONE ticket a year per employee they wrote, yup they're really doing their part.
Basiscaly no one wants to be the big meany to pick on cute little pouchie, because it won't "Make them feel good about themselves"......it's that whole feel good hippie attitude.
They have this campagin now to "empower the petestrians" and bicyclist. the advise people to just step off the curb at a corner when you want to cross and cars are expected to stop, now people are stepping out in the middle of the street all the time, bicycles go right down the middle of the busy streets.....well needless to say more than a couple people have been killed, not sh*t, they get wacked left and right, a lady got killed by a semi-tractor trailor downtown in broad daylight, the truck was only doing 15 mph. People drag their kids around in those little carts in back of their bikes down busy main streets, inches from traffic.
It is really unbelievable how stupid people are in Missoula, old hippies still in a purple haze, not an ounce of common sense left. They do the peace demonstrations on the bridge, too whether you're for the war or not GROWUP, with the peace grap already. The 60's will never die in missoula, old ladies with crew cuts and tatooes, grandpa's with pony tails.....and they are SO proud of their homosexual community, you know, yes the are very pregresive thinkers mind you. Much more enlightened than us common slops.
They think they are so on top of it with their bakeries and resturants, and outside of one or two good places the rest just absolutly suck. Sorry to rag on them, but they are such a group of self absurped and self indulgent has beens.
But anyway I've digressed, Missoula just cracks me up, they just think they are so progressive, and they're just a bunch of air heads, with dumb ideas that get people killed like the pesdestrians I afore mentioned.
The town changed a major 4 lane street into two lanes because they said it would improve traffic.....DAH, and now it's a huge mess and everyone is complaining, but they can't just change it back, they have to get everyone involed do planning, take public comments.....GEEZ......how stupid can you get. light up another one....."don't bogort that joint my friend"..............

Oh boy. I laughed whilst reading the entirety of this post. Let me explain why. There are so many other things in life, that are difficult in comparison to these trivial things you continuously spout off about Missoula. I am laughing because, it is SO obvious that you have never REALLY had to endure HARSH, fast paced, crime ridden, gridlocked traffic, REAL RUDE people, in your living area. etc, et al.

At this point, Missoula is absolute PEACE in comparison to where I came from. I drive down these roads and think....."Wow! It's nice to just take a drive, without all of the hell I used to endure on freeways and even city roads..."
Man, Missoula is CAKE in comparison to other cities I have been in. Dogs are trendy now? Since when? LOL My grandparents owned dogs of all breeds their entire lives. And children? What's wrong with them? LOL OH children are trendy too? Pedestrians? Hello! They have the right of way to traffic. Stop the car and let them pass. It's only GOOD manners to do so right? I was brought up that way, I'm sorry you see pedestrians as a problem. But you know, people do enjoy walking, and motorists SHOULD watch out and respect them no matter where we live on this planet!!

The negativity that emanated in every post of yours nearly changed my mind about moving here. I was living in such a stressful enviornment, my health forced me to make a change. I'm so glad I came here. I'll take the five o'clock busy traffic any day, over going back to where I came from!

Trendy liberal bakers eh? lol Simply don't go in and give them your good money. Give it to wal mart. lol This is so silly to me. It's like heaven up in this area in comparison to where I was. It amazes me how anyone can complain.

[jenzebel]

Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy

We are fixing things, and quickly, I might add....... What's been going on in the Bitterroot, won't occur here, as local county laws will prohibit it..... We aren't about to be yucking up to those who would wish to destroy what they did in the Bitterroot.

I've just recently started looking at this forum so forgive me for responding to an old post but: Are you kidding with the above quote? We aren't fixing anything! I haven't seen anyone learn any hard lessons yet, people are still driven by the almighty dollar and the subdivisions keep coming, particularly in the most inappropriate places. Have you been to Helena recently? They've built subdivisions in the north valley where at home site after home site virtually every well punched in is a dry one and south of Helena, up every draw and coulee that was once elk habitat, there are houses galore. And Great Falls is not exempt from this; the last I heard Great Falls didn't even have an approved master zoning plan, so what is in place to protect that area?

I am not a fan of government regulation such as zoning but when you've got people that are willing to build on land that should never be built on, what can you do? These people do not investigate whether an area is suitable for development, they just build it up, get the h**l out, and go on to the next "last best place".

[GiftShoppeGuy]

It's like I said previously, and I'll stand by it.

We here in Great Falls absolutely will not allow what's happened in the Bitterroot to happen here.

As far as any sort comprehensive "master plan", you might do well to visit us and get up to speed.

http://www.ci.great-falls.mt.us/peop...ning/index.htm

If the public doesn't want it, then it doesn't happen.

I have indeed been to Helena lately, and unless they devise an applicable strategy for growth and development, they will turn out to be just like how Missoula is today.

The statement below reflects Helena's attitude on growth in their area:

>>> ... Lewis and Clark County Commissioners Mike Murray and Ed Tinsley rejected a claim by commission chairwoman Anita Varone, who said her counterparts will approve interim zoning regulations in the Helena Valley “whether the public wants it or not....”

src: http://www.helenair.com/articles/200...9113006_01.txt

Great Falls can and does handle growth, and it handles it well. But it's got to get past our Planning Advisory Board and our public comments process first.

Over the past few years, we've done very well to avoid unnecessary growth in our area, citing the rejection of Walmart and Boeing to name just a few.

Our growth is steady, focused and reliable. It's a shame that I am not able to say this about some of the other areas in our state.

Growth can be a good thing, if it's base concept is applied properly. We plan for the future, not for the sake of the fast buck around here. We've got better things to do with our time, than to be playing fast and loose with the future of our community.

[JoeJoeMan]

Heart Wrote:

Oh boy. I laughed whilst reading the entirety of this post. Let me explain why. There are so many other things in life, that are difficult in comparison to these trivial things you continuously spout off about Missoula. I am laughing because, it is SO obvious that you have never REALLY had to endure HARSH, fast paced, crime ridden, gridlocked traffic, REAL RUDE people, in your living area. etc, et al.

You said..."it is SO obvious that you have never REALLY had to endure HARSH, fast paced......" pretty presumupuous of you, I dare say you or someone like you would have folded up and crawled under a rock if they ever would of had to go thru some of the episodes I've dealt with in life.....

Heart Wrote:

At this point, Missoula is absolute PEACE in comparison to where I came from. I drive down these roads and think....."Wow! It's nice to just take a drive, without all of the hell I used to endure on freeways and even city roads..."
Man, Missoula is CAKE in comparison to other cities I have been in. Dogs are trendy now? Since when? LOL My grandparents owned dogs of all breeds their entire lives. And children? What's wrong with them? LOL OH children are trendy too? Pedestrians? Hello! They have the right of way to traffic. Stop the car and let them pass. It's only GOOD manners to do so right? I was brought up that way, I'm sorry you see pedestrians as a problem. But you know, people do enjoy walking, and motorists SHOULD watch out and respect them no matter where we live on this planet!!

If you want peace you should have been here before the invasion.
Yea, my grandparents had dogs to, If you haven't notices that the populations of dogs and dog owners has exploded lately, you probably live in a different Missoula, I wasn't aware there were 2 in Montana though.
Presumpuous of you once again....I actually ride a bike and walk more than I drive around missoula. And when I walk or bike I would never be so rude as to make a line of dozen of so cars and trucks come to a complete stop and sit there idling fumes while I lolly across the street, maybe you feel you are special enough to impose that on other people but I'm not, just because they are in a car they are still people, I don't see myself any more special just because I'm walking. Besides it's a lot safer and easier just to stand on the corner NOT in the street for another 15 seconds until the traffic goes by...even on the busyest streets I rarely wait more than few seconds or just walk to cross at the light...second I never ride my bike on busy streets, wanna know why ? Did you hear ? Yet another biker got killed the other day.

Heart wrote:

The negativity that emanated in every post of yours nearly changed my mind about moving here. I was living in such a stressful enviornment, my health forced me to make a change. I'm so glad I came here. I'll take the five o'clock busy traffic any day, over going back to where I came from!

Darn, Looks like I'll have to be more negative next time.

Trendy liberal bakers eh? lol Simply don't go in and give them your good money. Give it to wal mart. lol This is so silly to me. It's like heaven up in this area in comparison to where I was. It amazes me how anyone can complain.

First off I don't go to those bakeries.
Well if you think this is heaven, it's because you came from such a dump, and why was it a dump. If you've read some of my post you probably heard me say that I'm not particuarly fond of the idea of people leaving behind the places they lived in and where they got whatever they could got there and than flee leaving the mess behind for others to deal with while they float off to find another heaven and turn it into hell, starting the whole process all over again. You see how that works ?
I guess I can just say enjoy your little bit of heaven while you can because I can guarentte if won't last long.....mine didn't, It got invaded with dogs, rude petestrians, foo-foo bakeries, big box stores urban sprawl, to name a few, and oh yes presumpuous trans-plants too.

Also don't take my post so seriously, it's just my opinion and it's ok to laugh at ourselves (us Missoulians), you probably haven't lived here long enough to know most people thing this is a very silly place indeed and making fun of it is kind of a tradition or way of life around here, so laugh a little....

[ColoradoOmar]

Missoula is a nice place. Jobs are more scarce, kind of like Fort Collins (where I live) Missoula has fewer jobs than Fort Collins. If you are in Nursing, you can probably get a job. There are jobs working with disabled and elderly, so that may work. Property values have really gone up, but you can find some places with reasonable rent, maybe not cheap rent. I was born and raised in Missoula and love to visit there. I moved to California awhile after I graduated from High School and had to move to Colorado because my husband's son is here. I'd love to live in Missoula again since I'm from there like it. I do miss California and get treated badly by many Coloradoans because I lived in California! You shouldn't get that in Montana -- being from Wyoming. God bless you in your possible move!

[jenzebel]

Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy

It's like I said previously, and I'll stand by it.

We here in Great Falls absolutely will not allow what's happened in the Bitterroot to happen here.

As far as any sort comprehensive "master plan", you might do well to visit us and get up to speed.

http://www.ci.great-falls.mt.us/peop...ning/index.htm

If the public doesn't want it, then it doesn't happen.

I have indeed been to Helena lately, and unless they devise an applicable strategy for growth and development, they will turn out to be just like how Missoula is today.

The statement below reflects Helena's attitude on growth in their area:

>>> ... Lewis and Clark County Commissioners Mike Murray and Ed Tinsley rejected a claim by commission chairwoman Anita Varone, who said her counterparts will approve interim zoning regulations in the Helena Valley “whether the public wants it or not....”

src: http://www.helenair.com/articles/200...9113006_01.txt

Great Falls can and does handle growth, and it handles it well. But it's got to get past our Planning Advisory Board and our public comments process first.

Over the past few years, we've done very well to avoid unnecessary growth in our area, citing the rejection of Walmart and Boeing to name just a few.

Our growth is steady, focused and reliable. It's a shame that I am not able to say this about some of the other areas in our state.

Growth can be a good thing, if it's base concept is applied properly. We plan for the future, not for the sake of the fast buck around here. We've got better things to do with our time, than to be playing fast and loose with the future of our community.

Perhaps you should reread the information. The document you referenced, "Great Falls Growth Policy" clearly states, "A Growth Policy is not a “master plan” - it is not legislation, and it is not a zoning or subdivision ordinance" (2005). So it has no "teeth". It is more of a vision statement than anything. Further in the document you find, "It (Growth Policy) does not propose specific locations for land uses and facilities or identify detailed regulations"(2005).

So what, if anything now regulates the area within Cascade County outside of Great Falls city limits (I realize the city has zoning) since "the Cascade County Board of Commissioners passed a resolution to dissolve the Great Falls City-County Planning Board and associated jurisdictional area, effective July 1, 2005"(Growth Policy 2005)?

Great Falls handles growth well? Right, that's why I've heard so many negative comments about the two motels built several years ago along River Drive south of Applebee's. "Growth" that has spoiled that part of the riverfront in many folks' opinions. At one time you could drive along and see the park and the river, but no more, not with the motels and Mackenzie River Pizza there. When I first heard about the motels being built in that location, I wondered why the developers didn't try to buy the land on the other side of the road and build them there. Well for one thing, the developers bought the land for at least one, maybe both motels, from the city (I recall reading that in the Tribune) and I can't remember what they paid but it seemed like an artificially low price. Now when you use the park, it feels like you are in the motels' backyards. Do you call that good planning?