Missoula, MT vs. Ashland, OR (Billings, Cascade: for sale, real estate, house prices)

[SarrD]

Hi folks,

I have applied for a job at the university in Missoula, but I have not visited there yet. I currently live in Ashland, OR with a pretty darn good job. From what I have read, NW Montana is a lot like Southern Oregon. Mountainous, cloudy, green, but a lot colder of course.

I wonder if anyone here has been to both places and could speak to the trade offs with respect to culture, climate, recreation, cost of living,etc.

Ashland is actually quite beautiful, but home prices have gone ballistic with all the invading equity bandits from Cal. I have been looking for a 3 br. 2 ba. home for about 5 years, but have not seen anything much under $350k. Very pricey.

I appreciate any thoughts.

[Joe Doer]

Originally Posted by SarrD

all the invading equity bandits from Cal

What is an equity bandit?

[SarrD]

Well, an "equity bandit" is someone, often a boomer, who flipped a house or three in Cal. and sold it to the succeeding generation at a huge profit, while chanting "real estate always goes up-get in while you can!!!, " then parachuted out of California to bombard other places with their equity bounty. Very good for those individuals, but it been very bad for California, especially the subsequent generation (imagine having bought a ($500k house in Stockton), and (in my opinion) bad for Ashland too, because the banditos have driven prices far beyond local wages for families. We have closed two of five schools recently because of the influx of aging equity-rich folks. On a personal level, many of the incomers are as nice as anyone else, but their huge effects have drastically changed the town.

[Kristynwy]

I moved out of Oregon and out to Wyoming. Montana was also on my list though. I love both Wyo and Montana.

We pretty much had no choice as we were priced out of the state I grew up in. My husband is originally a Southerner however. We could no longer afford the Taxes in Oregon especially.

My sister was looking into getting her nursing degree in Billings,Mt specifically instead of Salem,OR and the surrounding areas. Because the cost of living is cheaper.

There is income tax in Montana, but no sales tax like Oregon. The property taxes I think can get high in some areas, but the locals will be able to help you better with that. I wanna say gas is cheaper than in Oregon, I know it is cheaper here in Wyoming.

I highly suggest checking into Montana, I think the cost of living is cheaper and the economy is much better, I hear from my family back in Oregon the economy is really depressed in Oregon. I remember several schools closing down when we moved out also.

My husband has two college degrees and a professional tradesmen and we barely made it in Oregon. It is very retiree friendly but not friendly to young families such as mine or working class folks.

[Joe Doer]

If you bought a house for $200,000 and now the market is $350,000, would you sell it below market as to not become an "equity bandit"? The $150,000 profit will not buy a new home in most areas of California but will get you something in Oregon, Washington, Idaho, or Montana that is very nice.

Others bought homes for $400,000 and sold for $1,500,000. Now they are looking at retirement and they have the equity in their home as the largest part of their retirement nest egg. MAYBE with a retirement plan from work they have a total of $2,000,000 to retire on. If they move to Oregon, pay $400,000 cash for a home, that leaves $1,600,000. At 4% interest on possible investments, that leaves about $5000 per month to live on.

How can you blame them? A comparable home in CA will leave them about $3000 per month to live on.

This is a free country people can move where ever they want. If you don't like that concept, you will not like Missoula

[Greensleeves]

I totally understand the 'equity bandit' concept. Same thing happened in our smaller communities in Washington. My sons cannot afford to buy a home because they've been priced right out of the market. A whole development of houses a block over from mine, starting at $250,000 raised my taxes to a ridiculous amount. Especially since I only paid $45,000 for my house in the first place.
There's been an awful lot of development in Missoula lately. I can't help but wonder if the same thing is happening there, now.
Personally, having been to both places and having recently lost everything by thinking I could pick up and move to a better place, I'd sit tight. JMHO.

[bluebird39]

Kristy,

We also moved 2 yrs ago from Southern Oregon. I'm a former Southerner (Louisiana) but my husband grew up in Chicago, so we ended up in Northern Michigan. We would love to live out West again, and drove through Montana and Wyoming this summer. One area we really liked was Sheridan and the Bighorn Mountains. Is it a good place for young families? Can you afford to stay at home? Michigan is a bargain in many ways (not so with others). We were "equity bandits" moving from Oregon to Michigan, but problem is selling our house now that we're here and since this state is loosing its population. Even here house prices have gone way down since we sold and bought 2 years ago. We have friends in Pindale WY, but I guess that place has really changed in the last 5 or 6 years. Is Sheridan growing too? Are the schools good there?

As to the OP, we drove through Missoula, and frankly, I wasn't as impressed as I'd hoped I'd be. Just a drive through, mind you, but if you can afford Ashland, I think I'd stay there. We never could afford Ashland and lived in Central Point, but the schools were horrible, and job opportunities, especially for promotions were bad. There were too many older more experienced people moving there from other places as a last step before retiring. It's hard to compete with that. I was so miffed that CP schools had 30+ kids in each class, while Ashland was closing schools. There's got to be a better way..... I won't consider moving back to Oregon until they figure out the school situation. Schools in the midwest are SO much better.

Anyway, thanks.

[SarrD]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your thoughts. It sounds like nearly a toss up judging by the comments. Taxes are high in Oregon, but Montana is suffering from some of the same problems it appears.

John Doer-I take your points about a free country. I suppose equity bandits is too harsh-it implies bad intent, which I agree is not the point. Perhaps the term "equity locust" is more charitable. It describes the way hordes of emigres can change, even destroy, an area, but without ill intent. We all have to eat right?

My personal situation is that I cannot afford a 3 br 2 bath home near my work in Oregon without really destroying our finances. A Montana position would probably pay less, but hopefully housing (by far my biggest expense) would be proportionately cheaper. But my wife loves the woods around here. Is the hiking around Missoula comparable to S. Oregon?

[bluebird39]

I have no idea how old you are or what your life situation is, but if you go strictly on the ability to buy a house, I'd say Missoula is your best bet. I don't think either place will go down in value. I'd bet the University in Missoula is bigger than SOU as well. It'd be a good move probably job-wise. I don't see how young families are going to be able to stay in Oregon, let alone afford to send their kids to colledge.

Me personally, I'd pick Missoula over Ashland, but so many factors need to be considred. Good luck.

[SarrD]

Thanks Bluebird,

Actually, I work for the feds now, so might have a paycut to go to U of M. I am married, mid forties, with a school age child and a mother who might be moving in in a few years. So we need a bit more space. I could only afford a 900 sf 2/1 home in Ashland when we bought (2003). It is very hard for families here in Ashland now. I make one of the better wages in town, but we simply cannot afford anything remotely nice without getting in over our heads. Funny, I agree that Ashland and Missoula would seem to be solid RE markets. All the prices in the Rogue Valley have begun falling sharply (20+ percent), but I keep seeing the same homes for sale in Ashland at outrageous prices. I suspect wealthier Ashland owners can hold out a bit longer, but gravity will reach here soon like everywhere else. I don't know much about Missoula RE, though it does not look that cheap either.

We could definitely like to buy a nicer, conveniently located home, and to have gainful interesting employment for my wife too. We want to be able to save for college,retirement, rainy days, and a bit of fun too, not just be real estate slaves.

I believe you are the one who mentioned schools too. Funny, West Coast folks assume everyone east of the Cascades-Sierra are still drinking out of skulls, but it seems that midwesterners are pretty darn sensible overall. I did not know that Central Point was overcrowded while Ashland dies on the vine. A bit sad really.

Actually, I love Southern Oregon, but I am open to Montana. It sounds quite lovely. Thanks again.