Racism in the NW (low crime, lawyers, public school)

[seven of nine]

Exactly!

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by seven of nine

I want you to take a good look at the world around you. When you start your information about your family with racial prefaces you open yourself up to interpretation. It is NOONE's business the makeup of your family. I think if you are presenting yourself in this manner you could be setting yourself up for failure. Do not feel you have to justify yourself. At the same time anything that is different will evoke a response. You signed up for this duty so I will advise you to put on a little thicker skin. Be glad that you are seeing that the world may just not always bend to you. It is a terrible expectation that our country has gotten into.

Thats not being very fair. Lets be real here. This isnt new york city or atlanta we are talking about. Whether a person openly declares "hey my kids are black" or says nothing, they will be noticed. Pretending that 'no one will notice' or say anything is foolish, and a DRASTIC mistake. And Im sorry, letting people know something they would notice right off the back after looking at them equals looking for trouble? That could only mean their skin color would cause them trouble, if skin color = to trouble in whatever parts you reference.

Montana isnt known as a very diverse state (its not). Likewise, like it or not, its people arent known as the most welcoming of different people (the same can be said of countless places, from Utah to Detroit).

A parent wanting to know if their kid will get harassed because of their skin color is a logical thing. To answer this parent by implying "if they do its their own/your fault as a parent for letting people know they are black" is crazy, and makes no sense. Skin color isnt something one can hide.

As mentioned, I think she got her answer from the attitudes of many here (which begs to question, was that the purpose many of the montanas here were aiming at). It is sad that this mindset is still in peoples heads. Covering it up with "we dont hate non-whites, we just hate 'liberals/big city people/California folk" is like saying "we dont hate mexicans, we just hate brown skinned people whos ancestry is from south of the US border and north of El Salvador". You are dodging something that your reply implies explicitly.

Unfortunate, but at the same time, its more the reason to move to a place like MT. Peoples minds wont change on their own about different people. Once you move and get comfortable there, its one more friendly face for the next family like yours that does the same. Maybe all the 'less friendly' people will gather and move somewhere else if the trend continues. My old state of Texas has many parts that would welcome them.

[Broz]

Originally Posted by tindo80

Unfortunate, but at the same time, its more the reason to move to a place like MT. Peoples minds wont change on their own about different people. Once you move and get comfortable there, its one more friendly face for the next family like yours that does the same. Maybe all the 'less friendly' people will gather and move somewhere else if the trend continues. My old state of Texas has many parts that would welcome them.

tindo80, From an outsider looking in, it seems you may be someone looking for a problem so hard you will either find one or create one.

The idea of moving to a place to "change their minds" or in a feeble attempt to make them " gather and move" is setting your self up for failure. You would most likely be happier and more comfortable back in Texas with the people you relate to.

When I move, it will be to a place I agree with the people and their ways. Some may find this hard to believe, but I think there is a growing number of people in this country that are sick of all this so called progress or "Change"

I for one am sick of being told what is "good" for me and they can keep the "change" too.

JMO.

.

[seven of nine]

Originally Posted by tindo80

Thats not being very fair. Lets be real here. This isnt new york city or atlanta we are talking about. Whether a person openly declares "hey my kids are black" or says nothing, they will be noticed. Pretending that 'no one will notice' or say anything is foolish, and a DRASTIC mistake. And Im sorry, letting people know something they would notice right off the back after looking at them equals looking for trouble? That could only mean their skin color would cause them trouble, if skin color = to trouble in whatever parts you reference.

Montana isnt known as a very diverse state (its not). Likewise, like it or not, its people arent known as the most welcoming of different people (the same can be said of countless places, from Utah to Detroit).

A parent wanting to know if their kid will get harassed because of their skin color is a logical thing. To answer this parent by implying "if they do its their own/your fault as a parent for letting people know they are black" is crazy, and makes no sense. Skin color isnt something one can hide.

As mentioned, I think she got her answer from the attitudes of many here (which begs to question, was that the purpose many of the montanas here were aiming at). It is sad that this mindset is still in peoples heads. Covering it up with "we dont hate non-whites, we just hate 'liberals/big city people/California folk" is like saying "we dont hate mexicans, we just hate brown skinned people whos ancestry is from south of the US border and north of El Salvador". You are dodging something that your reply implies explicitly.

Unfortunate, but at the same time, its more the reason to move to a place like MT. Peoples minds wont change on their own about different people. Once you move and get comfortable there, its one more friendly face for the next family like yours that does the same. Maybe all the 'less friendly' people will gather and move somewhere else if the trend continues. My old state of Texas has many parts that would welcome them.

Perhaps you missed some of the direction of my post. Simply put, if you are concerned about the reaction of others to your family then IMO your unit might not be tight enough to endure a life altering move to another state. My post was indicative of the personality of no nonsense, state the fact way I find many conduct their lives in Montana. I was actually encouraging the poster to stop apologizing, just quit prefacing her family with assorted we are this and that. Hope you might see that if you reread. In addition the PC machine just has no gas here. You might just get your feelings hurt but life goes on. You survive.

[seven of nine]

Originally Posted by broz

tindo80, from an outsider looking in, it seems you may be someone looking for a problem so hard you will either find one or create one.

The idea of moving to a place to "change their minds" or in a feeble attempt to make them " gather and move" is setting your self up for failure. You would most likely be happier and more comfortable back in texas with the people you relate to.

When i move, it will be to a place i agree with the people and their ways. Some may find this hard to believe, but i think there is a growing number of people in this country that are sick of all this so called progress or "change"

i for one am sick of being told what is "good" for me and they can keep the "change" too.

Jmo.

.

lol

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by Broz

tindo80, From an outsider looking in, it seems you may be someone looking for a problem so hard you will either find one or create one.

That may be true. For what its worth though, ive been both to and through Montana more times than I could count. Im not some city-guy whos never set foot in your state or held a rifle or knows no one from Montana.

Personally, Ive never had a really bad experience there, other than wierd looks every now and then and a maybe rude passer by in a bar. But even people I know from Montana will tell you, its not a diverse place, and if you move there expecting that your differences from the majority (white, christian) wont be noticed, you are crazy.

The idea of moving to a place to "change their minds" or in a feeble attempt to make them " gather and move" is setting your self up for failure. You would most likely be happier and more comfortable back in Texas with the people you relate to.

The reference of moving back to Texas was being facetious. Of course I wasnt recommending that. Such a thing is as impossible as it is unlikely. That being said, one of the reasons I left that state was a large number (who are actually numerically no longer the majority in the state) treating those who are different than them rudely, or worst. My point was that the more of a people who are different than the current people move to a place, the more welcoming it becomes, even if one group of the previous people are as unwelcoming as possible.

When I move, it will be to a place I agree with the people and their ways. Some may find this hard to believe, but I think there is a growing number of people in this country that are sick of all this so called progress or "Change"

Then you fall into the class of people I spoke of and the reason why more people DIFFERENT than yourself should move to montana. This is America, a nation for everyone, not just certain people. And in the end, unless you are native american (100%), your ancestors came here from someone else as well.

As well, you may be sick of change, but thats like being sick of the sun setting. Human nature and history is change. Move with it, or it moves over you. Dont believe me? Ask the Romans, the British Empire, the Ancient greeks and Egyptians, the Inca, the Aztecs and the Maya.



.

Reply in message

[Broz]

OK tindo80, It is obvious we do not see things the same way. So lets just agree to disagree.

I guess I do fall into the group of people that you spoke of. The difference is I am ok with that. Especially when I look at the option of falling into the group you are in. Funny how you talk and dream of a place where everybody gets along and are equal. Yet it is you that seperated me into a group.. So, what have we proven ? You are not happy and wish to change people to suit you. I am happy being with the people that think like I do. So Thank You! .... For confirming that I have done right by choosing MT. as a place I would like to live.

I hope you find a great place to be happy too one day. But then that brings us back to my first statement to you.

"it seems you may be someone looking for a problem so hard you will either find one or create one"

Darn it!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck my friend.

.

[LAMG5705]

I have read all of the 170+ posts on this thread and I have to say I am greatly impressed with the civility with which this discussion is handled. All of you have differences of opinon but you dont allow the message to get lost amidst insults and racial slurs. My very diverse mixed family has been looking at the possibility of moving to Montana and in our research we have not come across any reason not to, actually this discussion further cements our desire to move there. I respect people for their opinions and beliefs and welcome a civil discussion of our differences of opinions (I actually enjoy a lively debate) what I can't stand is pure, unadulterated hate and the promotion of that hate. That is clearly not what I have read here and I applaud the residents of Montana for rising above all of that.

[tiberius]

Now hold on one dang minute, you varmits. Lets not go off half cocked. That aurora616 gal's got a right to her opinion. And its not like she don't know what she's talkin about. I mean, I looked up those 195,000 items on Montana racism that she talked about bein on the web, and I'll be danged if they weren't all there, just like she said. Course, she'd WRITTEN 194,999 of them. But still, when it comes to racism, I gotta bow to her experience. I mean,
she hates white folks SO much, well, she's darn near got racism oozing outa every pore on her body. I mean, if a white girl hates white people, that's still racism ain't it. I don't know,
I mean, I get so confused these days. But the girl's got a right to her opinion. And if we're even HALF as bad as she makes us out to be, why, I wouldn't blame her if she NEVER sets foot in Montana. .... EVER. .... EVER. And we'd deserve it. Nope, I wouldn't blame her one bit. Not one bit. IN FACT, I think that EVERYONE who thinks like her should just turn their noses up at us and never come here either. Just leave all of us here to suffer in our own company. It would serve us right. That's what I think. Yes sir, that's what I think.
But I gotta give Reziac points on his observation. And right to the point, as usual. The fact that you might have gotten "railroaded" doesn't mean you didn't do it. If you did it, but we didn't like you, well, you still did it. Reminds me of an old saying .... "just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they're NOT all out to get you."
Am I wrong, or isn't it human nature to be more comfortable around people like yourself, be it culturally or racially. That doesn't make us bad. Just human. Its frustrating when the media gets to control the language being used in most arguments. You hear something often enough, or read it in print often enough, it starts to seem correct, even if it isn't. God
save us all from "journalists" who want to be players instead of just reporters. If you question the students in journalism schools today, and, if you could, those in journalism school back for quite a few years now, you'll find the main reason they want to be in journalism is to "make a difference." And the way for journalists to do that is to bring their readers over to their ( correct ) way of thinking. And that's done by what stories they cover, what approach they use to cover them, what facts they use, and how they present those facts. And the language they use. People who aren't comfortable around, or don't agree with the lifestyle of homosexuals are suddenly all "homophobic". They have an irrational fear of them. People who don't wholeheartedly support anything a minority wants to do are suddenly "racist". And apparently minorities can hate white people for any reason, including skin color, and they can't be racist because they're not in power. You are charged and convicted, not for what you actually did or meant, but for what the media decides you meant. Just cause you weren't aware some intent was in your heart, doesn't mean it wasn't there. Luckily the media ... journalists ... can see into our souls and root out the "real" situation. And it doesn't matter if they have to manipulate, or mislead, or misrepresent, or outright lie. Because they are doing it for a higher cause. Because they know the way all things SHOULD be, and its their divine duty to make it happen. ( my apologies to God for sarcastically combining His name with journalists, and my apologies to all journalists for even mentioning God.) If conservatives try advance an idea, no matter how sensible, they are branded intolerant and inflexible. But should a liberal or journalist advance an idea, no matter how LACKING in common sense, they are portrayed as caring and right minded. ( no pun intended ). Of course, the portrayal of both sides is almost always courtesy of a ....
... journalist. And the vast majority younger people read all of this and see things exactly
as the journalists planned they would. The journalists and liberals have written off the over
40 ( 30 ? ) masses that they can't manipulate, and concentrate on the younger people cominig up. That's why the put such high importance on controling the media and education. Its far easier to quietly bend the growing minds of the young than it is to change the minds of adults. There is a quote from some famous socialist from the past, who's name escapes me. A quote taken to heart by many college professors and administrators, and put to use by them with their own students, and, through college trained teachers, it's applied to high school and younger students. And its a quote the still thinking, and independent, population needs to take serious. Because the liberal side certainly does. The quote is: "Give me a mind when it's young, ... and it's mine for life." And the idea is ALL to legitimate. All parents should be aware of what their kids are being taught at school. And if you find stuff that you know is wrong, make sure you explain to your kids what you think is right. Don't really even bother trying to change the school, they don't care. And they know the curriculum, and the books they're using. They know what they're doing. Damn !!, I wandered again.
The bottom line is ... you all know your own heart. If its true, then don't let anyone try and make you believe otherwise. ESPECIALLY a journalist. Let your kids know what you believe, and why. And lead by example. Remember, your kids are ALWAYS watching you. And you have no greater duty, or privilege, than to raise them as honest, free thinking, straight talking, informed, respectful, fair, and responsible. Do that and they will never let you down. You may not always agree with their choices, but they'll be well made choices. And in that respect, they will never let you down.
Back to the original subject. If you did it, you did it. We don't have to like you, we just have to get to the truth. Then let the chips fall where they may. ..... One other thing.
Grape jelly is difinitely the best for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

tiberius

[tiberius]

Honest, I actually had paragraphs in my reply. Guess I'll have to start using the double space paragraph style the rest of you use. Live and learn.

tiberius