Racism in the NW (Kalispell: high school, tax, live)

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by AQHA

I have an enormous respect for native people, but very little for those who complain about the lands being taken from them.
Any Indian who complains about the way the Washeeta (white man) came in and took the land from them needs to go back and study their history. The Indians were not one big happy family. The various tribes and groups fought, raped, stole, and kidnapped from one another from the time they migrated into this land from the North. Slavery was also very common.
The stronger groups would move in an take the land by force from those who were weaker. This is the source of the tension that still remains between the Sioux and the Crow even today.
My point is, the Indians were treated better by the Washeeta (whites) than those that they took the land from.
It is the natural progression of things.

The Indians that the Washeeta stole the land from stole it from other peoples before that. This is not really a debate either of us can win but these are the facts.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by jaada

well i almost misunderstood what you wrote i almost agreed with you. but how do you know they do well? doesnt it irritate you that they not only dont speak english but they wont speak it? it irritates me. however you cant compare the vietnamese and cambodians with what native americans went through, not the same thing. i agree that native american has alot of work to do but we are trying many of us, but until you have walked in our shoes you still dont have any idea.

One indication that they're doing well is they own good size houses and most times the buildings the stores are in, I do mean own, no mortgage. Another sign is their business's have been going for many years and if you talk to any bank people the ones that use banks (not many did) had quite a bit of $$$ in them.
As for it not being the same as native americans went through you're right. native americans got to stay in their own country (or at least north america) and land they were familiar with for the most part.
The Cambodians and Vietnamese were pretty much driven across the world under threat of death to a place where everything is different from weather to culture.
Don't forget China towns in many cities either...

As for it aggrivating me, yep it does and I refused to patronize the places that didn't speak english. I may not like the fact that they've pretty much taken over sections of many cities but you've got to admire people who can go through all that and still make it good without complaining too much.

[ksomers]

We just moved to Missoula from Reno, Nevada and I was astounded how racist people are around here, its not full blown KKK but its snide comments here and there. For example : my daughter's 2nd grade had a faux election in class and she was going to vote for Obama but all of her classmates told her not too "because he was black and didnt belong" I understand there children but that kinda tells you a little bit about whats going on in there homes doesnt it. Meeting and hanging out with new friends and neighbors there have been other things also, I think because we are white they seem to think its safe to throw in a races comment or a snide remark under there breathe. Its so sad. We plan on moving soon, I dont want our kids growing up around things like this! Ive learned Montanans are very narrow minded, just because you dont see alot of other races doesnt mean you need to be disrespectful.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by ksomers

For example : my daughter's 2nd grade had a faux election in class and she was going to vote for Obama but all of her classmates told her not too "because he was black and didnt belong" I understand there children but that kinda tells you a little bit about whats going on in there homes doesnt it.

No, it tells you what children understand about it. They hear their parents complaining about Obama's policies and how THOSE "don't belong" in America, but children don't grok politics, let alone what a Democrat or Republican is. They DO grok "MY tribe" vs "YOUR tribe" because children are VERY tribal themselves -- with kids it's all about fitting in. They seize on the visible "doesn't fit in" (which in this case happens to be a racial characteristic) simply because little kids understand the world in terms of what they can visually define. It has nothing whatever to do with "racism in the home".

(I remember reading some research on this phenomenon many years ago, but couldn't tell you where to find it online -- it was WAY before this newfangled intarweb thingee)

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by ksomers

...her classmates told her not too "because he was black and didnt belong" I understand there children but that kinda tells you a little bit about whats going on in there homes doesnt it.

We like to teach them good values early.

[jarsmom]

Its too bad we dont seem to get is that hatred is really colorblind. Color might be a platform for hatred to operate, but it certianly doesn"t need it.
I think the notion of "Hate crimes" is absurd. Hate is hate, it doesnt matter if you hate your neighbor or any else.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by jarsmom

Its too bad we dont seem to get is that hatred is really colorblind. Color might be a platform for hatred to operate, but it certianly doesn"t need it.
I think the notion of "Hate crimes" is absurd. Hate is hate, it doesnt matter if you hate your neighbor or any else.

Exactly. People in general are tribal, and tend to distrust outsiders. In an extreme case, that distrust becomes expressed as hate or fear (tho sometimes with good cause). Whatever is visibly different (race, culture, religion, whatever) becomes the excuse for "hate" but it really is NOT the precipitating factor.

The concepts of "hate crimes" and "hate speech" are not only absurd, they are a form of Thought Police, and as such have become a legal reason to discriminate against anyone who doesn't conform to whatever is the currently politically correct school of thought. Ten years from now, what's politically correct will change, as it does with distressing regularity, and what was accepted speech and behaviour today will become forbidden tomorrow. That is the real danger of "hate" legislation.

The very concept encourages racism, by endlessly insisting that Joe killed George because Joe is a majority-race green and George is a poor downtrodden purple minority, when the truth was that Joe killed George because Joe is a mean drunk and George was an irritating idiot. But call it a "hate crime" and suddenly all the purple people scream "RACISM" ...and the green people start thinking "what a bunch of morons, why do we let them live here anyway?" And pretty soon you have racial tension where none previously existed.

I live in Rodney King country. I see this crap firsthand every day, mostly engendered by "journalists" who don't have enough real news to report, so they instead pick at every social scab until it bleeds afresh. After all if you let it heal, there'd be no news -- and more to the point, no advertiser income.

Remember, the news isn't about information. It's about selling your eyeballs to advertisers, and the more eyeballs are glued to the screen or page, the more money the TV or newspaper makes. Sensationalism catches a LOT more eyeballs than poor lowly uninteresting facts.

========

Something I wrote several years ago:

12.04.02 Some anti-Semitic group dumped "the Holocaust is a lie" leaflets on the front lawns of a primarily-Jewish community. Predictably, this was condemned as "inciting hatred". Um... are the Jews whose lawns were littered upon supposed to be thereby incited to hate themselves?? How gullible do these litterers think they are?!

[jarsmom]

I noticed a earlier post proposing that some other people group has no Idea what the Native Americans went through. I believe the op was referring to Cambodia. UH......... sweetie, I dont know how old you are, but if you google the "killing fields", you might feel differently. It is human
nature, like hate, to believe we are somehow unique in our suffering, weather individually or col-
lectively. I work in a hospital. I can be going into work obssessing about how horrible my situation
is until I sit thorough report and get a reality check. Noone is trying to diminish your suffering,
but, there are many people groups have suffered mindless genocide.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by jarsmom

Noone is trying to diminish your suffering,
but, there are many people groups have suffered mindless genocide.

At some point in history, almost every nation, tribe, religion, village, or other "people group" (good term has suffered a defeat and genocide at the hands of some other group. History marches on and this year's victors are next year's vanquished. There are no never-defeated peoples anywhere on earth, and there are no peoples who haven't at some point inflicted genocide on someone else.

You can spend your life dwelling on the sins of someone else's fathers and the sorrow of your ancestors, or you can get on with living your own life in the present. But you only get to pick one of these options, so choose wisely.

[CatherineFrances]

I don't see racism or any other 'term' here anymore than in ANY other place in the country.

I think that people who want to go looking for a problem in any subject matter being it race or x, y or z with a chip on their shoulder will usually find it or cause it. NO offense.

You have good and bad people anywhere you travel or live.

I was born/raised on the east coast.

I lived in a rural area in farm/lake country in the Great Lakes Region with my late husband - his home state.

I moved out here after he died as we had planned long before his cancer discovery.

I am now remarried to a born/raised several generation Montana man now.

You have good and bad people with all kinds of opinions in ANY part of the country.

You have people who think that if you discuss and CALL ILLEGAL ALIENS = CRIMINALS which they ARE since they are NOT legal versus LEGAL, jump through the hoops, fully tax paying people, hired by companies that do the right thing who do NOT burden our infrastructure and services LEGAL IMMIGRANTS and/or citizens - they call us 'bigots' since we use the PROPER words for those criminals.

Those of us who do NOT think that criminals/illegal aliens should be given amnesty and that the companies that hire them should be punished... we get called bad names by some people.

There are illegal aliens = criminals NO matter WHERE they come from - any part of the world!

There are legal immigrants... do the right thing in ALL ways.

I have friends back east and out here from all backgrounds, colors, nationalities, religions, etc. MT has a much smaller population in a much bigger state.

You have bigots in cities, small towns and in the country in ALL states and for that matter around the WORLD too!

Regular people outnumber the others.

Another thing - some people think that if people discuss some ISSUES especially political ones - if you don't agree with the other side or give a PC version ala the mainstream mass media (UGH!) - you are called bad names because you dared to call a POLICY wrong or bring up any other issue. FACTS sometimes confuse people especially in government and financial issues. Personal responsibility and accountability confuse people too!

Catherine