why are some people so mad? (Billings, Missoula: housing, condos, work)

[NativeMontanan]

Originally Posted by NativeMontanan

Check California gun laws...Check New York gun laws.

I stand corrected... I didn't have time last night and replied before I did research. BUT...I know I read something regarding guns in both of the above 2 states, but I can not find it now...Maybe its a city rule, but I wanted to get on record that I made a mistake. I know though I read something about this because someone I know vacationed in CA and while they were gone I was researching CA and it mentioned something about guns. At the time, I was thinking to myself....I sure hope they don't have their pistol...they would be arrested.

[NativeMontanan]

Originally Posted by johns65vette

Probably some idiot throwing a lit cigarette out the window, or kids....since we never have electrical storms. The only electrical that would have caused the fire, is a blown up transformer.

AAAhhh, see they have found it to be a car in a ravene rather the the dirty, filthy, careless no good cigarette smoker.....They say the fire is 30% contained. Stay safe.
I can't believe some of the reports from "bystanders" yesterday. By the way, FOX news gave great coverage. Anyway, residents were on one side of the road and the fire was on the other. Interviews with these residents said they were taking pictures of the fire from across the road. Either you have very good containment and know where a fire is going or really nutty people.

Did you notice that everyone seems to first acknowledge these firefighters (GO FIREFIGHTERS!!!) and secondly, the DEVELOPER's responsibility as opposed to a "subdivider" for installing fire breaks near these huge I mean huge developments?

That is interesting about electrical storms. Do you mean in your area of California or California doesn't have electrical storms? Not enough static build up, I guess. Our natural fires start by lightening. They usually go out naturally from the rains that follow....that is unless its a "subdivision" of 20 acre, 40 acre plots who haven't allowed grazing animals to break off the lower branches of trees and eaten the ignition grasses.

[NativeMontanan]

Originally Posted by shammy

NativeMontanan - Yes we in the parts of the west that are being over run with newbies, are now paying for (much) more government then we want, but (so far - thank God) we are not getting all the government we pay for since they manage to waste so much!

And you have to ask - what is the title of this thread again...

Sham, This is why I hate the word Sales Tax ... They waste so much. I was involved in the University system for years. Though they are at the bottom of the food chain there was a great deal of waste and "protection" for Liberal Arts programs. Sure we need (or do we) sociologists, physiologists and other programs in the Arts including Art, but look at some of the degrees offered. Johnnie hides under the umbrella of one of these "programs" and "earns" his sheepskin.

He never learned Math or Science in his youth. His "public" school government mandated background was too busy teaching him how to "feel." The faculty are required to push them through for a Federally Funded head counts. Won't expound but, look at the "special programs" because Johnnie is too stressed to take a test with his peers. There are programs where he isn't required to be in a stressful situation, like a scheduled exam! Imagine that. Yeap, sign em up. I want to employ that dude. Oh, where is Joselyn!!!

I don't mean to harbor on Liberal Arts; there is a great deal of other waste. I also was employed by the muncipality. More waste. Government is not responsible or accountable. They spend money to project an image of "we are here to take care of you." In fact, look at the fine example of Congress...I didn't vote for them to play the game they are playing while our country is going to heck. Each day they are spending OUR money ... seeing who can p**s in the most corners. Sick! (hah, automatic censor...I didn't put those astericks in.)

What I visualize when I see Montana ever so swiftly becoming one huge subdivision is the old computer game Pac Man. Huge chunks of once pristine sections of land with "piles" of yellow log homes excreted by developers.

The King Pac Man is the big one on the hill with the golden arches over their driveway Their name on a placard pronouces their morsel of dirt, a ranch. Did it cost a tree's life to put a big old arch over their driveway? Do they even know WHY ranchers used to put the fence posts higher near a gate?!? If they did they probably wouldn't have made such a "statement."

The other homes in the fields below are the refuse of what the King Pac Man didn't want. Hah. The serf cabins...or so it must seem to the mindset of the person living in the giant monstrosity above.

I look at these homes the firefighters are trying to protect in California. My question is how much home does a person need to live? What is the average family size of these structures? Do you think any of these people are happier because of the "size" of their waste? These boarder on obscene ... And the PC's focus on "obesity". These same fools probably lap what Gore offers.

Where have all the flowers gone? Long time passing. Covered too many different things in one post again. Too much time spent. Got to go feed the critters.

[MontanaGuy]

Oh, on the other. Thank you. You know one can not be a fence walker. Walk on one side or the other. Remember Humpty Dumpty...He sat on a wall.

NativeMontanan, I'll bet you were responding to my statement that I'm a moderate and sometimes liberal. Let me explain. I look at every issue as an individual thing that needs to be addressed by the pros and cons and I tend to get pretty analytical. It's never made much sense to me that there's a large block of positions on issues that are labeled as conservative and the same is true of liberal positions. I consider myself to be an independent thinker and I come to my own conclusions based on reason. I've always hated the herd mentality when people will accept everything that is conservative, liberal or whatever the case may be so they can feel that they're part of a group. I've often noticed that people in very conservative places like South Carolina will all seem to have the very same opinion on almost every question you ask them and yet they claim to be fiercely independent. The same is true in a liberal place like Massachusetts where they all seem to respond in a similar manner. There's alot of peer pressure to fit in with your community and unfortunately many people respond like sheep. I refuse to do that because I don't feel the need to belong to any group, I just believe in following my own convictions.
Well, I got pretty wound up on that one didn't I?

[NativeMontanan]

I find more character in people who are willing to stand up and argue back and say what's on their mind, then those types found so often in today's America, that say 'yes' to anything in an effort to suck up to anyone, mostly for personal gain.........

I was agreeing with you from the above quote. Either walk on one side or the other. Don't try to balance on top of the fence. It doesn't mean one needs to walk on one side forever, or on the other. But have an opinion rather than agree because someone has a D or an R or C or L....Independents need to think rather than go with the crowd. They can pick and choose. The important thing is not to waffle dependent on the crowd. My example was Humpty Dumpty sat on the fricken wall....and monitored it all without committing to anything. Or committing for personal gain dependent on the who happens to be in attendance....correct!

I was agreeing with you....but a well placed commentary anyway. Ruffling the feathers always allows a little air to circulate. LOL

[YOU-CANT-EAT-SCENERY]

Originally Posted by NativeMontanan

AAAhhh, see they have found it to be a car in a ravene rather the the dirty, filthy, careless no good cigarette smoker.....They say the fire is 30% contained. Stay safe.

I didn't mean it like that, but a lot of the fires here are caused by such action

Originally Posted by NativeMontanan

I can't believe some of the reports from "bystanders" yesterday. By the way, FOX news gave great coverage. Anyway, residents were on one side of the road and the fire was on the other. Interviews with these residents said they were taking pictures of the fire from across the road. Either you have very good containment and know where a fire is going or really nutty people.

Nutty is the right word Of course I have to admit, when the hill behind my house was on fire a few months ago, I was taking pictures as well. Of course the there was fire crews here, and the fire was only burning the brush on the hill. Most of my neighbors were in a panic. I guess I just don't get all that excited, and tend to stay calm.

Originally Posted by NativeMontanan

Did you notice that everyone seems to first acknowledge these firefighters (GO FIREFIGHTERS!!!) and secondly, the DEVELOPER's responsibility as opposed to a "subdivider" for installing fire breaks near these huge I mean huge developments?

Not sure of exactly where this fire is, but usually it is the homeowners responsibility to keep brush cleared from around their properties.

Originally Posted by NativeMontanan

That is interesting about electrical storms. Do you mean in your area of California or California doesn't have electrical storms? Not enough static build up, I guess. Our natural fires start by lightening. They usually go out naturally from the rains that follow....that is unless its a "subdivision" of 20 acre, 40 acre plots who haven't allowed grazing animals to break off the lower branches of trees and eaten the ignition grasses.

I guess not enough static buildup in this area. Probably due to overdevelopment We might see lightning once or twice a year for about an hour or so. Unfortunately most of the grazing animals are long gone from any developments. We usually have fires, then if we are lucky enough to get any rain, we end up with mudslides, in the burned areas.

We have 2 seasons here. Summer, and fire season Supposed to be in th e90's today, and as I write this it is 92 at 1:30. Was just as hot yesterday. Yet another reason I want out of California. To hot most of the year

[NativeMontanan]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

For those of you who can't get enough trivia here's a map that shows lightning strikes. Notice how the northwest US get alot of rain but not much lightning and then take a look at Florida where they get more than anyplace else in the country.

Well..I couldn't see the link until I "quoted" you. I'll go look. Dry lightening is the threat here. I watch the storms come over the tops of the mountains and onto the plains. There are clouds, but NO rain. I try to watch every lightening strike. One bit of lightening is too much and we get BIG lightening-- cloud to ground-- and it isn't a flash...it stays for a second or two. Not good stuff.

[MontanaGuy]

Well..I couldn't see the link until I "quoted" you. I'll go look.

I just couldn't get that photo to work. In fact I tried a couple of different ones but no luck. Both of the maps I was trying to post show that the west coast has very few lightning strikes. The southern US, particularly Florida and the coastal areas of the gulf are very active. Florida has the most strikes by far so if you want to get killed by lightning I'd advise you to go golfing in florida during a thunderstorm.
When I moved to Seattle after living in Montana I thought it was very strange that it was raining all the time but lightning was fairly rare. It does occur but it's not typical. The causes for lightning are very technical and complex and you really can't predict when a strike will happen. They say that you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than winning the lottery. So far I haven't experienced either event but I'm hopeful that I'll be one of the lottery winners as opposed to a charred cadaver.

[JoeJoeMan]

I just hope we don't get another one of those hot,dry,smoky summers this year.
But on the good side of a bad situation you gotta think that a bad fire season would make a couple people think twice about moving in to the area.
I wonder what that does to your property value, when you got the yuppie house on 10 wooded acres and then even if your house isn't toasted by the fire it still chars everything insight for 20 miles. That's gotta take something $$$ of the value of your place, I guess it opens up the view, even if all you see is black. But I guess the good news after that is....you don't have to worry about a fire coming you way again for a while.
Remembering back forest fires have always been an issue here in MT, but it seems with every passing season the thread from wildfire is increasing. And even if the actual fire don't find you then the smoke surely will. But then again it makes sense, more people moving to MT to enjoy the outdoors and it's no surprise there are more fires, man caused. More houses in the urban forest interface and more problems, fire crews now are increasingly more diverted to protecting homes, homes that many think should not have been built there for that very reason, or they should be better protected and the responsibilty of the owner not the fire crews who should be concerned with fighting the wildfire not saving some yuppie house.
What year was that, a few years back, between the smoke and some storm clouds moving in it got so dark the city lights actually went on in the middle of the day, and I think it even rained for 20 seconds, which really didn't help anything, probably just go a few new fire starts from the lightning.
Such is life now in the "last best place".....you know I'd be willing to bet one could find a lot better place, but you look, I'm too old.

[MontanaGuy]

but you look, I'm too old.

So how old are you anyway JJM? I'll bet I'm older, I'm 57.
Anyway, there's another aspect of growing cities that should be talked about and that's density of population. It seems to be common practice for cities to just keep gobbling up more land on the outlying areas by adding new developments which add to sprawl and commuting distance. It's completely out of control where I live in the Phoenix area. The city of Phoenix by itself is now over 500 square miles and when you add in the huge area of large suburban cities it's probably twice that size. There are some things that can be done to avoid sprawl. You can't stop people from moving in but you can plan that growth so it's beneficial to everyone. First of all it makes sense to encourage business growth in a central business district or downtown instead of creating these little office parks that are spread all over the place. That way it simplifies the design and practicality of possible future mass transit. This means building taller and larger office buildings and doing everything to promote the downtown as a vibrant and interesting place to work or just visit.
Then there's the issue of housing. It also makes sense to promote a denser population in the form of condominiums, townhouses and especially high rise condos that are centrally located. I know this kind of lifestyle isn't for everyone but if any of you have ever been to Vancouver, British Colombia that's a big city that's a model for how a city should be designed. Now of course we're talking about places like Missoula, Montana which is not a big city but is experiencing some growing pains. I'm suggesting that city planners should be thinking far ahead, even fifty years or more, and they should be trying to lay the groundwork for a city that could become quite large. They should also restrict the sheer size of the city by not allowing developers to just keep building on the next open space. I know that not everyone will be thrilled with my thoughts but when you live in a city that's already really big it makes alot of sense.