why are some people so mad? (neighbourhood, schools, living)

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Should owners be charged to have a fire fought in their own front yard??... Absolutely.

Anyone who doesn't have brains enough to take an active interest in their own property, deserves what they get. If they want it all natural looking??.. with all of natures grand flamable materials close by??.. Then so be it.
Let the place burn down.

Our firefighters work very hard, and their workload shouldn't have to be compounded by those who would wish to die by the sword.
If you want NATURAL, then by golly, fire is a part of all of that NATURAL.

As far as being fined for not clearing areas around your home??... NOPE.... no fines. Letting these places/homes burn down because someone wants NATURAL, will be $ fine $ enough, dontcha' think?

[JoeJoeMan]

Thanks for the link Montanaguy, I breifly viewed it and will read more of it soon.
I do understand the pro-growth crowd, the politicians, etc....I really don't expect them to do anything about it, beside make up those phoney growth plans.
Actually the government can pass what ever laws it feels like passing, they certainly can tell people what they can do with their property, they do it everyday, zoning is one example, "no-smoke" in your place you own place, like your bar or resturant is another, they can do whatever they want....But I'm not wanting them to make up laws, thought that would be nice, I would just like to see them/towns/communites take on a "no growth" stance, basically the community say......"we don't want anymore growth, so if you want to put up a subdivision, box-store, etc, don't come around here asking for rezoning or any other type of favors, dah, dah, dah"...... the same way our society has taken on a no tollerance attitude with with reguard to race and sex issues we should to the same with growth issues........"we don't tolerate them", "they are not good for the community, for the quality of life".
I was in Missoula the other day and it suddenly struck me how stupid the "in-fill" program has turned out.....in-fill basicaly says you can build another building in your backyard or super-size your house into an apartment building, anyway if I'm not mistaken, part of the plan is that you have to provide off-street parking for new units, and so I notice that the new units going up in backyards all have car garages on the bottom floor and the residence is on that top........what's wrong with this picture ?.............simple....we're are now building houses for cars, I thought the idea was to conserve space for people, not cars, if you want to increase the density of people, why in the hell are you making people use half of the space in these units to house their car ? how stupid is that ? Before you say it, or think it............there is room on the streets for parking in the majority of instances I'm speaking of.
So much for growth type plans, If you don't have an upfront provision in your growth plan to slow if not stop growth, your plan is dishonest, a bandaid, a superficial notion at best.
I find "Open Space" issues a joke, what good is saving a couple acres while you ruin the whole valley? most of the Open Space deals are usually someone's little pet project, or a deal for landowns by political friends.
Sorry I don't buy into any of these phoney plans. In the end those that are suppose to be the growth opponents turn into compromising pansies sucking up to make favor with the pro-growth crowd, if not for their own personal political aspirations then to bargin off their own beliefs.
Let me ask you this............If for example you know that increasing growth by X number of people will increase traffic fatalities by say 10 people, would you settle for half of X knowing it would only kill 5........growth isn't good at any rate, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY ! Get that thru your THICK HEAD.....if the shoe fits wear it, if not this message is not meant for you.
How did I do ma ?

[Reziac]

State and local gov'ts may talk a good line, but in the end they are all for growth, the more uncontrolled the better. Why? TAX DOLLARS. Growth makes property value go up, leading to increased tax revenues.

And when the infrastructure starts getting overwhelmed, you just make the developer cough up an "impact fee" to cover it. (I saw where Belgrade was going to apply a $13,000 "impact fee" to new houses.)

The gov't gets more money either way, and that's generally all they're TRULY concerned about. Yeah, individual legislators may actually grok the problem, but gov't as an entity is about preserving and enhancing its own revenue stream. Nothing helps a revenue stream like maximizing growth.

If I sound cynical... well, I've been watching the galloping-growth situation here in SoCal for two decades, and it's ALWAYS been all about the tax revenues. Oh, except when it's about adding to some politician's war chest, but that's small potatoes by comparison.

Montana is just catching up with the times.

[JoeJoeMan]

Right on Reziac !
The almighty buck rules. That's why I don't buy into those so-called growth plans, they are really ment to esculate growth.
I've said this before but I guess it's worth repeating...our economy now is using 'growth' to fuel the engine, and it is really evident here in MT.
Let me ask you this....what would happen to Montana's economy if growth were to stop ?........I think we all know the answer.
Well our worthless politicians let all our jobs go over-seas, mostly to a communist country, then we let the invaders in across the border, to take what jobs are left and drive the wage down, so what are we left with....this phoney growth economy.
I guess you've been hearing the news about the sub-prime mortage industry, a direct result of our desperate attempts to do anything to keep this house of cards economy together for a couple more years after the .com bubble burst....start a housing/loan bubble.
Yup, if the whole housing industry in Montana implodes, that will be me you hear laughing the loudest. Sorry I don't or won't have the slightest bit of pity on any of the those who've been trashing our state with their so called growth, they all deserve what they got coming.............just one man's opinion and my wishing won't make it so....so don't get your shorts all up in a knot if you disagree.

[Starcatcher]

When my family and I moved here in 2004 it was only after 15 years of research on the area. Yes we were prepared for the lower pay scale and the slower life style and no we did not want to change anything, that's why we moved here. Yet as soon as the "friendly" real-estate agent sold us our home, people in our town became mean and judgemental. (That we were not prepared for) They ASSUMED that my husband and I wanted to change things, yet in truth we only wanted to clean up the beer bottles that the local youths had thrown about the back country the night before. They talked ill of us and spead untrue rumors, yet we did not even know these people!

When I questioned my sons 5th grade teacher about how he was adjusting she told me not well because of his "East Coast Gang Like Attire". In truth he wore t-shirts in blue, black and green and his jeans were not Wranglers and worn drawn up tight around his belly button.

To all the people of Montana, not everyone wants to change your state. Unless of course you are talking about cleaning up the arsnic that has leaked into the environment from the Butte Berkley Pit or the toxic ash from the Anaconda Smelter. Both of which are causing cance not only in you, but also in the wildlife you hold so close to your hearts.

Do I hug trees, yes, but I also like to hug people, nice people. So please before you spend the next two years of your life peering out your livingroom window at the new neighbors who move in from N.J., CA or wherever, and before you open your mouth to judge or gossip about someone just because you can; how about you bake them a pie and go over to say hello. We might just be nice people who you would like IF you took the time to get to know us.

[mollysmiles]

Starcatcher, what I am wondering is this.....if people were like that, and treated others like that....why on earth would you want them to bring you pie? Just by reading what you wrote, I am guessing that you're a better person than that. My family is also looking at relocating, simply to live in an area of the country we like. Moving would give us a chance to explore more of it. If the job situation doesn't work out, we're happy here in Maine and making a good living. We also would not be moving to Montana to change anything that makes it unique, and have done our research. So, I love what you wrote and I really hope it hits home for some of these people. I've been reading some of these threads from people who make judgements out of ignorance, and frankly, I think they may be beyond hope.

[MontanaGuy]

I've been reading some of these threads from people who make judgements out of ignorance, and frankly, I think they may be beyond hope.

Well, the title of this thread is "Why are some people so mad?". I have a couple of thoughts about that question. I think it's very common for people whose lives haven't worked out the way they've wanted to find someone to blame. I've read threads that are very similar from a number of states and they all sound very similar. People are often angry that someone is moving into their state that has been more successful in a career than they have and you hear the typical responses that they think the newcomer is some pretentious snob who drives a fancy car and could care less about their new neighbors, etc. Montana's forum is pretty mild compared to some of the others I've read. What people need to realize is that America has become a nation of people who don't spend 30 years at the same job anymore and there is a major shift of population from state to state because economic and lifestyle changes have radically transformed our society. No one can stop change but the most successful individuals will adapt to it and make the best of it.

[jess18lee]

im going to be moving to montana on thursday i was reading the columns and i am shocked. my cousin lives in Cameron MT and owns Beartooth fishing lodge. i have been out there a bunch of times and people have encouraged me to move here. i have been so excited to move until i read all your comments. i hope that people who have written in this can take a look at "outsiders" and think that maybe just maybe their nice people who were wanted by others in your beautiful state.

[Florida_Gone]

Montana be warned.

I have been visiting Montana for the last several years and can appreciate the beauty of your state and also your reluctance to trust outsiders.
I am a 4th generation Floridian and was raised in a rural town, that is not so rural now. Our family interests and jobs were in agriculture, but not anymore.
Florida for the most part is being ruined by outside interests and land developers that are robbing us of the way Florida used to be. I guess they call it progress.
It's sad to see land preserves being bulldozed to put up condos and subdivisons and wonder where they are going to find adequate gov services and water.
Once it happens it is hard to stop. Outsiders are ones that typically can't understand why there homes flood when they build them in a flood area or why they have wild animals in their backyards.
Too fed up and mad to keep writing.

I suppose thats why I'm moving to Wyoming very soon.

[bigskydreaming]

I've been reading on this forum for a year, contemplating my move to Montana. I've read so many angry posts from JoeJoeMan, I couldn't bring myself to wade through this whole thread, too.

I just wanted to say this: As some body who was born and raised in a rural town in Massachusetts that is now crowded and surrounded by outlets and big box stores, then lived for many years in beautiful rural Maine that is now being colonized by folks "from away" who are changing the nature of the place unutterably, I sympathize with your frustrations, I really do.

HOWEVER, that being said -- some of us wanting to move to Montana want to move there because we love it the way it is right now, and maybe some of us will be great assets to the fight to keep growth in check or at least planned to occur with as little harm as possible. The population is growing, so growth is inevitable -- but we can work to make it happen under the best possible circumstances.

Beyond that, I just want to remind you that Montana belongs to me as much as it belongs to you. I'm an American and this country, from sea to shining sea, is mine to reside in, wherever I choose. Please don't forget that when you are going off on tirades, okay?