why are some people so mad? (Great Falls, Lincoln: environment, loans, refinance)

[JoeJoeMan]

halliwellalian wrote:

so, why was it ok for you to move to montana all those years ago, but its not for the new comers? is it because you have already ruined it? truthfully i feel sad for you joejoeman. you are so bitter. you never have anything nice to say.

Hal, I wasn't the one who said only the native americans had the right to live here, otto-focus did....so I was telling him to follow HIS OWN adice NOT MINE. And why do I have to explain that, just read what was written. I think perhaps you are bent on misconstrewing my words.

Montanaguy wrote:

You really can't even talk about sprawl and congestion until you reach a certain size and there's not a town in Montana that's even close to reaching it.

You have to be kidding about western montana not experience significant growth and sprawl.......just read what some other folks here have wrote about it.....I live in western montana, everyone here says that same thing I do, that they can't beleive what is happening and how fast....you are, no offense, but dilutional to say otherwise.

helliwellalian wrote:

johns65vette, thank you. it just makes me sad to think that there are people out there that are mean and bitter towards people who move into their towns. oh! and i dont live in california. (nothing wrong with californians. i was born there)

The only reason you are saying I'm 'mean and bitter' is to try and discredit what I say because you disagree with me. In fact I have never resorted to calling anyone on here, what I've been called, 'Angry', 'bitter, 'mean'....I don't sink to that because you disagree with me.
Second you have no idea what my feelings are, I'm just stating what I see happening around me, and state that montana is/has changed, a way of life is/has disapperared in particular in western montana, perhaps it's that you know how mean and bitter you would be if someone turn the place you lived updise down and so you project that on to others, like me.
In addtion, I meet folks all the time who have just moved here, some are now good friends and fishing buddies.
My point is simple, life here is/has changed dramticaly from the influx and sprawl, and it's not for the better, and if you think I'm mean bitter for saying that, I guess that's your problem.
I had a person in political postion personally tell me, that 80 percent of the people would be very happy if all this sprawl would just stop, as most people just aren't very happy with it, almost everyone with out exception say how much nicer it used to be here before all the sprawl/growth started.That is what people say and feel that live here, does that make them mean and bitter.....or unwelcoming, no, they just aren't very happy with what is happening and watching a way of life slipping away.

[MontanaGuy]

You have to be kidding about western montana not experience significant growth and sprawl.......just read what some other folks here have wrote about it.....I live in western montana, everyone here says that same thing I do, that they can't beleive what is happening and how fast....you are, no offense, but dilutional to say otherwise.

The word is actually delusional but that's no big deal. You know I'll bet you're actually a sincere and nice guy but it just seems like you're trying to put the blame on newcomers to Montana for the changes you don't like. If there wasn't a single newcomer I suspect that the same changes would still be occurring because as I mentioned earlier the small numbers of newcomers just can't have that much of an impact. There's as many people moving out as are moving in so that's really not the issue. I don't think you realize what sprawl is. I had a coworker who drove 46 miles one way to get to work and she just lived across town. Missoula is just not that big! I have this feeling that you're unhappy about some aspect of your life in Missoula and you're trying to blame someone else. It's hard to have a meaningful conversation with someone on the internet and I wish that I could have a real conversation with you. I'm just trying to give a little advice to people who are interested in Montana because that's where I'm from.

[GiftShoppeGuy]

It's all of the combined opinions presented here that causes our state to be the great place that it is.

Good, bad, or otherwise...... we are all entitled to our own perceptions and opinions.

Some points are valid, while others are just plain way out there...... but points they are just the same.

I'll stand by my previous post.

>>> The sentiment is indeed understandable in many cases.
There are those here in Montana that are witnessing, first hand, their way of life being swept away by those who would just as soon care less about us, our way of life, our concerns, our economic survival, and especially, our wide open spaces..... <<<


>>> Everyone deserves to live their dreams.... if they can..... and if moving to Montana is a part of your dream..... then so be it..... <<<

I have been quite open, and honest about my home, as I see it, as I've experienced it over my years of living here....

And I'm not going to sit here and paint an unrealistic picture of how things are in Montana..... I'll tell it the way it is.

>>> Prepare yourself, your family, to run on the proverbial shoestring... to fly by the seat of your pants.... to run roughshod...... because sometimes, living here just isn't the "walk-in-the-park" that some would have you believe. <<<

[lorelei2873]

Gift Shoppe Guy & Joe Joe Man, I think you're you're doing fine. If there weren't plenty of others with the same concerns as you, there wouldn't be a bumper sticker in my local bar thanking people for visiting MT and then asking them to leave. When I worked there, I would get nearly daily requests for info on where people could purchase the stickers. I love meeting new people and am always friendly to new folks who arrive. But, hey, your point of view is salient to have a related bumper sticker.

[lorelei2873]

Originally Posted by MontanaGuy

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. If you don't mind my asking what town are you living in? You know I find that people often try to blame others for their own failures or shortcomings. To be honest I couldn't stand to live in a really small town. I remember my sister lived in Chinook, Montana and their little newspaper would actually have an article if someone had guests from out of town. I mean, what kind of life could a person have if they would find that sort of information interesting or informative? It probably would be a good idea to at least find a bigger community where you could have a variety of activities and might occationally find people to socialize with. Good luck.

Are you joking? Many, many small town newspapers have an "around town" news section about who's having whom to dinner and who has relatives visiting. Boring, yes. A staple of small town newspapers, yes. Your comments are that of someone who is not from a small town and thinks we're hicks. So, you invite everyone to move to Montana blah blah blah and say that our growth problems are not really problems in a relative sense. However, you mock small town life. That's so demeaning. Or, do you just plain not appreciate or understand small town life?

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Originally Posted by lorelei2873

Gift Shoppe Guy & Joe Joe Man, I think you're you're doing fine. If there weren't plenty of others with the same concerns as you, there wouldn't be a bumper sticker in my local bar thanking people for visiting MT and then asking them to leave. When I worked there, I would get nearly daily requests for info on where people could purchase the stickers. I love meeting new people and am always friendly to new folks who arrive. But, hey, your point of view is salient to have a related bumper sticker.

Ah yes, the bumpersticker..

"Welcome To Montana.... Now Go Home...." (been around since August 1983 that I'm aware of)

I remember it well.. and with some humor I might add.

My wife, of all people, who, incidently hails from the great state of Texas...... was just beside herself to get one of these.....

I knew where to get one... of course.... but thought then, as I do now.... It's just not appropriate..... regardless of where you think you might be from.

I never let on to her about where she could get one...

One day, we were at "Rockin' Rudys".... and she sauntered up to the counter and asked about where she could get the sticker......

My bottom jaw hit the floor... I couldn't believe it, of all of the places to ask such a question ....... Rockin' Rudys... heh heh heh.......

Needless to say.... she never got one.
A smile comes to my face every time I think about it.



Oh, and as long as I'm rolling on the floor with with the laughter of that memory......

I'm reminded of when the "Montana Native" bumper stickers came out......
Oh what a genuine hoot that was.....

I swear..... Every transplant in Missoula County had one on their car..... and I mean... Every....Single....One.....

Oh boy....... now I'm really rolling.... heh heh heh heh heh

[otto-focus]

Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy

Ah yes, the bumpersticker..

"Welcome To Montana.... Now Go Home...." (been around since August 1983 that I'm aware of)

I remember it well.. and with some humor I might add.

My wife, of all people, who, incidently hails from the great state of Texas...... was just beside herself to get one of these.....

I knew where to get one... of course.... but thought then, as I do now.... It's just not appropriate..... regardless of where you think you might be from.

I never let on to her about where she could get one...

One day, we were at "Rockin' Rudys".... and she sauntered up to the counter and asked about where she could get the sticker......

My bottom jaw hit the floor... I couldn't believe it, of all of the places to ask such a question ....... Rockin' Rudys... heh heh heh.......

Needless to say.... she never got one.
A smile comes to my face every time I think about it.



Oh, and as long as I'm rolling on the floor with with the laughter of that memory......

I'm reminded of when the "Montana Native" bumper stickers came out......
Oh what a genuine hoot that was.....

I swear..... Every transplant in Missoula County had one on their car..... and I mean... Every....Single....One.....

Oh boy....... now I'm really rolling.... heh heh heh heh heh

we had that same bumper sticker here in oregon since the early 70's and people would refuse to serve californians,we now have bumper to bumper traffic on I-5 so talk all you want the people are coming and they will populate your state like you can't imagine.on the positive side you can never get lost going to montana,you just go north until you smell it and go east until you step in it.

[MontanaGuy]

However, you mock small town life. That's so demeaning. Or, do you just plain not appreciate or understand small town life?

Sorry if it came across that way but the post I was responding to was presenting the other side of small town life. If you read that post you'll see it was a person who moved to Montana from LA and was never really accepted and was having a difficult time. There's at least as much anti big city talk from small town people as there is from people who live in big cities who are criticizing small town life. I've spent a great deal of time in small towns, my Mother is from Twin Bridges, my Father from Alder and I have relatives in places like Deer Lodge, Sheridan and Whitehall to name a few so I do understand that life in a small town could be fullfilling for many people and I don't think that they're hicks or anything like that. I do know that small town life is not for me, I like the excitement of a big city but that's just a personal feeling. My sister made some of the best friends of her life in her many years living in Chinook and I met a few of them and they were caring friendly people. So I guess my point is that I didn't mean to present my thoughts on my earlier post in a way that would offend anyone, I was just responding to the concerns of someone's circumstances.

[montana_molly]

Whew! What a string of posts.

First, I'd like to respond to the small town living - how does 750 people sound? I'm from a small city the size of 350,000 and when I married my 5th generation Montana husband, I said, "Okay, I'll come back to Montana, but after college, please don't dump me in one of those little itty-bitty towns where everyone knows your business!

Forty years later (31 of them in that little itty-bitty town), I have to say I've lived the good life. I know just about everyone in town, and most well enough to know when they are exagerating about their story-telling. But along with "knowing everyone's business" comes the most caring and loving people, loving you even when they know you well! If you're sick, here comes a pot of soup. If someone gets into a financial bind by "bad luck" or an accident, here comes a fundraiser to help them get through rough times. We can meander over to each others homes and sit around the kitchen table for some good laughs or tears of joy or sorrow. My kids were reared in the safest of environments; and oh, how we have loved our times in the hills. Some of best memories were made on our camping trips and dirt biking and snowmobiling and skiing. It has been the most blessed of places to live; and here the most gentle and caring folks. Truly, this is the American dream. I'm so grateful for it, and thank God every day (well almost every day).

But realistically, on the part where everyone is moving in, come on. Look at where our global population was just 70 years ago. Then take a look at it 50 years ago. Ten years ago. And when you think we started with just Adam and Eve, well you see where I'm going. We have been fruitful and multiplied and are filling the earth. And the earth's population right now is greater than the sum of its people from the beginning up until the first part of the 20th century!!!! It's going to happen.

Our town has halved itself again in the past 10-15 years. Most have been such great assets to our little community and they were so glad to fit in and be a part of it. One gal told me she wasn't sure she would make it until we invited her to join us for dinner. We became fast friends, and just about the time her husband was ready to give up the ghost and resettle for her sake, she told him she could make it now. We are interdependent creatures and need each other. Had we ignored their existence, they would have withered; and it would have been our loss.

Oh yes, we've had a few undesirables move into our town in recent years; I believe they thought that coming to a small town is a good "hide-out" for criminal activity. Not exactly so; remember, everyone here knows your business (the thing I dreaded the most turned out to be an asset) - LOL. And a newcomer stands out like a sore thumb. They are watched too closely for their comfort and many times just move on. We posted pictures of pedophiles that moved in, and one left immediately afterwards. Small town living is like shining a light in a dark place.

I love "small town" Montana. Yes, it is also changing. Change is coming for all of us. We can't stop it, but we can be pro-active and make it the best it can be. We can't look at out-of-staters like they are our enemies. They are OUR people for goodness sake. They fight for our freedoms too. They too have sons in Iraq. And most of us really want the same things. And you want to know the funniest part. After they move here, so many of them want to close the back door so no one else can move in - once they've come in. Can't blame them. I'm just wondering, if all of the naysayers are 3rd, 4th, or 5th generation Montanans? Not that it matters; we are our brothers' keepers.

My pet peeve: I do have one. The extremely wealthy coming in and building their multi-million dollar homes (driving up the cost of real estate), and then living there for a couple of weeks a year not contributing to the communities. The very wealthy buying up the real estate that has river running through it, and closing it off the the Montanans who have enjoyed its bounty for so many years. Those doors I would close if I could, but not to the working-class citizen who just wants to make a better life for themselves and find a safer place to live. (And, by the way, we've got to remember who's selling off their real estate to the very wealthy. Old time Montanans wanting to make a quick, big buck. And can you really blame them. Some of them scraping to make ends meet. But somewhere, we've got to take our part of the responsibility for the change we see.)

[JoeJoeMan]

Molly ....I don't think we are looking at out-a-staters as enemies.

Molly....It is far from just the wealthy moving in and driving house prices up, it's all the peoplel moving in and putting a demand on housing AND bringing that 800,000 they got for their Calif home, and then thinking nothing of dropping that on a home here, that really is a factor, I've seen it happen time and time again.

And do we have to keep going over the point that montana's population isn't increaing, I think we've addressed that enough. First off, don't count the people count the houses. Second just look at western montana and the drastic changes it has gone thru. If think you have to look at the population of western montana valleys not the state as a whole, the western valleys are having significant increases. Driving 93 in the bitterroot now, you are literally taking you like in your hands, people are killed on a weeky basis.

The reason the poplulation of the whole country is increasing is because of immigration, not from existing birth rates. So an ever increasing population is not an inevitble thing, our government is forcing it to happen, to our own detriment. but for the benifit of some, meaning the all mighty dollar, same here in montana.

AND YES our problem is out-a-staters moving in, your brain is functioning outside the boundries of common sense to think otherwise...sure we'd have some expansion, new store, gas station, etc....BUT no where near what is currently happening without and influx of people into western montana, other parts of the state like eastern....is another story, maybe we can get them all to move there, where they'd really could make a contribution.

Monatnaguy wrote

The word is actually delusional

I see you know that too ! It would be arrogance on your part to think I didn't.

Molly wrote

I married my 5th generation Montana

And you say that was, what 30-40 years ago...wow he must have come out with Lewis and Clark.