why are some people so mad? (Helena, Kalispell: real estate, incomes, work)

[JoeJoeMan]

Montanaguy..........I've heard that there are actually quite a few americans that do work in agriculture, but that is only what I've heard, so not sure how true that is, but if we threw out all the invadors then they'd have to start paying a respectable wage to americans to work in agriculture. I did my share of hard outdoor labor when I was young, it's not like white people can't or won't do it, I did.
Also, I heard China is this strange mix a capitalism and communism, and that a lot of businesses are subsudised by their government, which allows them to actually operate at a lose while still producing cheap stuff, which makes it even harder for our markets to compete.
We've really been screwed over by our politicians, with reguards to the illegal invasion, and the exporting of our livelyhoods to a communist country. It really makes you wonder, what the **** is going on. The other thing that should give us all pause, is that our current president is the son of a former president, and one of the next people they want to run for the office is the wife of the last president, even after he disgraced us in the eyes of the rest of the world....it should strike us all as just a little bit strange that running our country now is turning into a family affair, the Bushes, the Clintons....something is really rotten and stinks around here.
Yea Bush created 2 million new jobs, to bad they are all in China. And why should we create new jobs, they'll just ship them over seas too. Why don't we just wait for all those new jobs they keep promising us to appear before we ship the old ones over seas? Democrate, Replican they're all scum-bags.

Throw out all the illegals and watch the wages go up for those jobs, then stop exporting the jobs we do have, then people will have real jobs to do and we'll be able to stop ruining our country with this phony assest growth bubble economy.

[fbcobrn]

""a selfindulgent, sex, drugs and rock & roll, baby-boomer generation. Who as long as they get their big truck, super-sized house, plastic surgury and next sexual encounter are perfect willing to look the other way, actually I think their self absorption has blinded them from reality. ""

WHOA!!!!!!!!! Goodness gracious, will these phobic generalizations never quit ?!?!?! Be still my baby boomer heart. My hubby and I are boomers, and proud of it. I drive a little Mustang and he has a small Dodge pickemup, I don't smoke, I remember all of the 60's and early 70's, too arthritic to clean a McMansion, nothing is nipped nor tucked (although it muchly needs it), I'm more absorbed in my dghter and grandsons than myself.....if you're offering sex, I'll make a point to 'look the other way' where YOU are concerned and I can't help being blind to some degree...I wear trifocals and have Vitreous Detachment in both eyes!!!

I'll be up on my property in March, see if you even notice I'm there. I'll be the one burning incense and meditating quietly next to my spring, just me and Nature.

Ball's back in your court, JJM.....

[JoeJoeMan]

fbcobrn

Be real, Obviously I don't mean everyone. I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. Obviously our generation is more selfindulgent and fatter than the 'great generation'.......is everyone OF COURSE NOT.

as you follow quote proves you are generalizing to make your point...so are you say all old hippies burn incense ?

fbcobrn wrote:

I'll be up on my property in March, see if you even notice I'm there. I'll be the one burning incense and meditating quietly next to my spring, just me and Nature.

Actually you'd fit right into montana with all the foo-foo people here these days, burning incense and meditating,


fbcobrn

if you're offering sex, I'll make a point to 'look the other way' where YOU are concerned

Please don't flatter yourself, I never made any such suggestion. And find myself a better person than to even honor that with the snide remark it deserves.

[dcconey]

My husband and I are looking to leave CA, and NOT because we want to...but because we feel we have no choice anymore. Our entire state is being taken over by people that are re-creating exactly what they were running from. CA was once a Grand Lady. Unfortunately, because of bad politics and neglectful residents, she's starting show her battle scars, and it's gonna take one huge, expensive, uncomfortable surgical procedure to save her. It breaks my heart!

You have explained exactly what is happening -our school systems are failing as well! I have 6 children and hold the old fashion morals and values that I was brought up with. I am going to tell you a story that had just happened to me -this will maybe help you understand why some of us need to find a better way. My story goes back to the beginning of the year with my daughter complaining about the constant yelling by the teacher in the classroom. I talked to the teacher before Christmas break asking her to please not yell in her classroom because my daughter is afraid to come to class (not exposed to such violence) her excuse was that the students are tired and ready for a break, its the only way she can get their attention.
The yelling has continued, and last week my child was sent to the office because she presented her back to another student druing an oral presentation while she did last preparation for her own recitation. I can understand the teacher is trying to teach the children that this is not acceptable behavior, but at the same time I feel this matter could have been handled in a different manner. My child was so upset when I picked her up after school, and crying so hard that it took my going to the office to find out what had happened to her. I spoke with the principal about the incident and thought that this matter was dealt with. The next day she was in trouble because she failed to return the refferral notice signed by her parents.
I didn't realize the teacher expected it back signed, I thought being I talked to the conference with the principal the day before was enough. I then went back to the office, talked to the principal again, and told him that I would like the teacher (if she has issues) to call me at home.
The following day my daughter was told she now needs to write an apology letter to the student that was supposly disrepected.
This is my concern:
This classroom is like a boot camp for sixth graders. She is apparently trying to toughen them up and show them that they're not in elementary school anymore. The principal concurs. Should I listen to my daughter or to the principal? Education revolves around the needs of students. I as a parent have to be realistic and honest with myself about all the issues that are involved in "A day in the life of a teacher" but does that make it all right for a teacher to yell at our children? NO Does it make it more palatable for parents just because the teacher is a trainer educator? NOT EVEN FOR A SECOND
But what this does mean if that if we want to see improvement in the demeanor of the people hired to educate our children we have to make sure that they are in environments that are conductive to learning.
Not only can these instances of abusive exchanges with teachers be extensively damaging for the child on the receiving end, they also set a horrific example for the other children exposed to the exchange. Acknowledging that these abusive educators are the exception and not the rule within our public school system provides little consolation to parents of children that find themselves victimized by teachers who verbally and emotionally abuse their children. The principal, a supporter of this employee, chalked up my complaint of verbal abuse to a supersensitive child rather than recognizing and admonishing the teachers behavior for what it is.
Emotional abuse in our educational setting is just as damaging, scarring and inexcusable as any other form of child abuse. The verbally abusive exchanges that occur behind these closed classroom doors become neutralized when expose to administrators where the word of a teacher always trumps the word of a child and the parent's pleas for intervention fall upon deaf ears. Now my child is forced to endure reprisal as well, on a daily basis. This is why some of us are looking for a better environment even if it means finding a better place to live.

[JoeJoeMan]

Hi dcconey,
I appreciate your concern for you daughter's education. I had a similar instance here in Montana with my son. If anything I think that you would find the education system here in Montana more empowering to the teachers, which is a good think as they can exert more control and discipline in the class room, which alot of people think is lacking in other places. If all we had to worry about when I was kid was that if someone like the teacher was yelling at us, we'd would have walked all over them, verbal abuse was like water off a duck's back to us. And if we 'got it' at school we could rest assured we'd get it at home to from our parents...no questions asked about what was what, the teacher/school was always right. Five kids in the family, we all took our lumps right or wrong and all grew to become college educated professionals....Anyway education is a whole 'nother topic.
Anyway, and yes I do agree with your, your state has really degenerated....would it be fair to say it has something to do with the people and ideas that run the state ? I don't think we can blame it on their pets. It is amazing that California, where progressive thinking is always being self proclaimed, you really have to wonder in light of what the state has become. One really has to wonder how bright are the people (ie the 60's generation) that are now in charge of the state. But that is a whole 'nother story too.

[MontanaGuy]

Dcconey,
My sister has been a teacher for over 30 years and she's one of the dedicated ones who really believes in her profession. However, I don't think that you can make a distinction between good schools and bad schools simply by location. Unfortunately, teachers are not paid all that well even when they have advanced degrees like my sister. There are many teachers who shouldn't even be teaching but we're short on teachers so we take them anyway. This is a nationwide problem and you will find excellent schools and terrible schools located in the same city. I honestly don't think you would find that schools in Montana or other states with small populations are necessarily better schools. Instead of approaching the problem with the idea that simply moving to another geographical location will resolve the issues I would advise you to really dig into the details of various school districts and how the students are doing there. I can't imagine that the entire state of California has gone down the drain as far as education is concerned. More often than not the inner city schools in big cities suffer from racial conflicts and lack of funding. This can often result in the atmosphere that you're describing in your children's school. Wealthier suburbs tend to have a higher quality of education and better facilities. You might want to consider other factors than the physical location of the school. It's more complicated than that.

[decembergirl]

Originally Posted by fbcobrn

I'll be up on my property in March, see if you even notice I'm there. I'll be the one burning incense and meditating quietly next to my spring, just me and Nature.

Now, whether you meant to or not that is exactly the kind of crap that torks me off. Other people talking about land here spoke about it with fond love and memory because it meant something to them. It wasn't just land, it was home. Not just a piece of ground they happened to own. What bugs me about people moving in from out of state isn't the ones who buy a house and live and work here and raise their families. Its the ones who use us for their personal recreation center. You own homes over half the country, work in CA and probably brag to your country club buddies about how much land you have in Montana. Its almost like its a status quo thing, not genuine love of the state. Its a trend, show off pictures of your 5000 sq foot vacation home that you VISIT once a year.

I know a lady from CA who moved here to live and work and bought a $30,000 home. Because she wanted the simple life. The people who are moving here to make a living don't bother me at all. Its the people moving here to show off their assets that get on my nerves.

Yeah, I visit Nature occasionally when I need to meditate, but I don't wanna live there. Sheesh. I don't care where you are from just live it, love it or leave it.

[JoeJoeMan]

Decembergirl Wrote:

Its the ones who use us for their personal recreation center.

You kinda' hit the nail on the head for me....People on here think I have an attitude about people moving here to Montana even though I tried to explain myself a couple times they don't seem to catch on.
I don't mind people moving here, you get transfered for you job, you come back to live with family, back to work the ranch, etc.
What does get me is people that just want to move here because it's MONTANA, they are just looking for someplace to live, to which I say, "nothing against you, but our western montana valleys are getting choked up now with people who just wanna move here because it's beautiful, trendy, "quality of life", second home, hobby ranch, small town life, move to Mayberry, etc. " Well we love you and would love to have you but this whole sprawl and growth thing in western montana is really outa' hand now, to the point where it has changed a whole way of life for the people who are just trying to make a go of it here.
I don't think outsiders really realize how tough it was here in years past, the 80's in particular, when the rest of the country was buzzing, there were lots of people here scratching and struggling just to get by, losing there houses, with little to go on except the solice of living in a nice, quite, quaint, and beautiful and pretty much unspoiled place, and I think it's rather tough for those people, myself included to see what is happening to the area and the obvious feeling that they are getting that they are or have been pushed and priced out of their own towns and neighborhoods. And we find it very condisending for people especially outsiders to tell us...."we must except change"

[fbcobrn]

Originally Posted by decembergirl

Now, whether you meant to or not that is exactly the kind of crap that torks me off. ...Yeah, I visit Nature occasionally when I need to meditate, but I don't wanna live there. Sheesh. I don't care where you are from just live it, love it or leave it.

I'm sorry. No I didn't intentionally try to "tork" you off ...I was merely posting "tongue-in-cheek" as a response to frequent generalizations from the Cali-phobes and was just trying to be what they expected me to be.

You are new here to this forum (according to your date) and are stereotyping me without knowing me as a human being or reading previous explanatory posts about myself.

We are building a new home because the property we bought, where my husband wanted to live, won't allow a modular, trailer or tent to live in.
I don't have the energy to clean 5000 sq.ft so it will be a livable size, not a lodge. It is not my recreation home, it will be my full-time home. I am not one who keeps up with the "JONES" I already have a job lined up, as I am to poor to retire at 58! my husband has been told he will find employment also.
I hate country clubs and all they stand for. I am conservative in my dress, behavior and beliefs, albeit a few quirky ones. I hate rap music, love country and classic rock.(after all, I'm one of those "baby boomers")
We seldom party, eat out or go to movies or plays. We don't hob-nob socially. Most of our friends are our family, we are very family oriented, at least with those we have left.

This property and the community are so much like I grew up with in my hometown, that it feels like "I am" coming home. Unfortunately, my hometown is way too expensive so I can't go home there in my waning years, regardless of the memories. The town had dirt roads way back when my dad and granddad bought up on the hill....having moved here from Iowa in the 30's. They helped build homes in the neighborhood, helped build the Caldecott Tunnel that goes to Oakland, Ca. Dad was raised Quaker and instilled many virtues in his own kids.

So, yes I believe in serenity, solitude and incense. I'm loyal, compassionate, sensitive, fair-minded, helpful (nurses can be very nurturing souls), accountable for my own actions and pose no threat to you and your state. I am very out of step with the political nature of the San Fransisco Bay Area; I don't love it, and plan to leave it while I can. I just don't have the energy for this place anymore. I live on almost a half acre here, because I can't stand to be so close to my neighbor's house that I can hear them farting in their bathroom. Yuck, too close.

I travel a bit, sightseeing around my state and nearby states now, and I plan to do the same there. I have read of many places on here that I would love to see, find a nice place to camp sometime, and meet people. The USA has so much more to offer the traveller, IMHO, than any Tourist trap does.

So despise me if you want, that's your right as an individual and as an American.
Just as it is my right to live wherever I want and be as responsible a citizen and neighbor as I can be and be kind to Nature and her inhabitants. I will survive even if I am my only friend. After all, all any of us know about each other is what we read here, and even then we still don't know.

Peace.

[fbcobrn]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

People on here think I have an attitude about people moving here to Montana even though I tried to explain myself a couple times they don't seem to catch on.
I don't mind people moving here, you get transfered for you job, you come back to live with family, back to work the ranch, etc.
and I think it's rather tough for those people, myself included to see what is happening to the area and the obvious feeling that they are getting that they are or have been pushed and priced out of their own towns and neighborhoods. And we find it very condisending for people especially outsiders to tell us...."we must except change"

I think it's really more like a fierce passion of defending what's yours and your way of life....many of us outsiders do "get it". And yes change is inevitable, like death and taxes. It's how things change that people have control over to some degree.
Are you yourself politically active in your state, county, community? I work full-time so I'm not at present, but I can and do exercise my right to vote in every election.
Talk about losing freedoms and rights and way of life.......ever read some of the stupid infringements happening in Calif. thanks to the "do-gooders'?
They want to ban spanking your kids....can't smoke in your own car or yard, now you can't even park your boat, RV or Garbage Bins in your driveway because your neighbor can see it...oh my.

So, JJMan, attitudes are ok, they're what let's us know we are still alive and kicking. Some of us on the left coast also have experience with lean times and the fortitude to get thru them; not easy, but can be done.