Question as to available talent in architecture and engineering in Bozeman (Billings: sales, how much)

[moritz391]

So it seems that there are a fair number of people on the board complaining about the job market in Bozeman. Does this mean that it's relatively easy to hire? My father runs an engineering company in Billings and has been able to recruit pretty good talent, but in the geotech field.

I have a post-revenue design/development group I'm looking to move from the east coast and would like to come home. Taxes in Montana are really obnoxious (11% state income tax?!), but there is of course the quality-of-life benefits of living in montana and some desire to reverse the flight of talent away from the state. At the moment, I have a series sustainable, modern work-force housing (affordable, mid-priced housing based on average income rather than average sales prices) projects under development throughout the east coast. I'm hoping to expand into CA and the northwest in the coming years.

I have restructured and plan to start a new design group. Last year, I was paying entry-level (but extremely talented) new hires $60k with very good benefits. Our group director was making $120k. Based on everything I've read and what I know from family members, that would put me at the very top of the hiring food chain in the city. But can the get real quality?

I know there are a lot of smart people in Bozeman, but is it hard to find people with more national experience? So much of the vernacular architecture practiced in Bozeman is only relavent within the immediate region. And designing log homes has little to do with my practice.

So, for those in the know-- Is the 'bozeman brand' strong enough to entice good talent from a broad national pool with an uncommonly strong pay and benefits structure--say in line with NYC? Or do most people coming to bozeman just want to find something to pay the bills and check out. And what is the local talent pool like? Are there good modern-schooled architects already floating around Bozeman to hire?

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by moritz391

So much of the vernacular architecture practiced in Bozeman is only relavent within the immediate region. And designing log homes has little to do with my practice.
[snip]
Are there good modern-schooled architects already floating around Bozeman to hire?

Er... I don't know where you get the idea that Bozeman architects only design log houses. Montana State University has one of the most highly regarded Architecture programs in the entire world. My sister graduated from MSU's Arch program and is now a full partner in one of the largest Arch firms in the west (which also has offices in Spain** and China, and does many multi-million dollar projects, including a single-family home in China that cost $6 million to build!!) My sister could hire from anywhere, but recruits new talent from MSU by choice.

MSU's Engineering Dept. is similarly well-regarded.

The fact that most can't make a living in Montana after graduation has nothing to do with the talent pool or education, but rather with the fact that architecture and engineering tend to be major-metro-area careers, not rural-state careers.

** For a while my sister's office assistant was the niece of the King of Spain, who sent the royal kids overseas to learn how to work for a living.

[bigtrees]

Well said! There's a lot more to Montana than log homes, that's for sure.

[moritz391]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Er... I don't know where you get the idea that Bozeman architects only design log houses. Montana State University has one of the most highly regarded Architecture programs in the entire world. My sister graduated from MSU's Arch program and is now a full partner in one of the largest Arch firms in the west (which also has offices in Spain** and China, and does many multi-million dollar projects, including a single-family home in China that cost $6 million to build!!) My sister could hire from anywhere, but recruits new talent from MSU by choice.

MSU's Engineering Dept. is similarly well-regarded.

The fact that most can't make a living in Montana after graduation has nothing to do with the talent pool or education, but rather with the fact that architecture and engineering tend to be major-metro-area careers, not rural-state careers.

** For a while my sister's office assistant was the niece of the King of Spain, who sent the royal kids overseas to learn how to work for a living.

My parents are both alumni, and I definitely respect the school. I would argue against MSU Arch as being globally important (for reference: The USA's best architecture schools in research: 2007 | archsoc.com (broken link)), but I would also argue that talent comes from a wide range of places. My school is at the top of the list and I wouldn't hire half of my former classmates. I've also been a visiting critic at several lesser-ranked schools at which I saw some incredible talent. So I don't mean to come across as a school-snob or anti-montanan by any stretch.

That being said, do you think your sister would have considered staying in bozeman? Your description sounds a bit like my own story (altough I was a native who left after high school)... that is, educated in montana and then struck out for major markets. So maybe my question would be whether someone like her-- top talent at MSU-- needed to leave the state to 'succeed' or whether she would have considered local employment if it had a more global reach.

Thank you for your reponse.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by moritz391

My parents are both alumni, and I definitely respect the school. I would argue against MSU Arch as being globally important (for reference: The USA's best architecture schools in research: 2007 | archsoc.com (broken link)), but I would also argue that talent comes from a wide range of places. My school is at the top of the list and I wouldn't hire half of my former classmates. I've also been a visiting critic at several lesser-ranked schools at which I saw some incredible talent. So I don't mean to come across as a school-snob or anti-montanan by any stretch.

That being said, do you think your sister would have considered staying in bozeman? Your description sounds a bit like my own story (altough I was a native who left after high school)... that is, educated in montana and then struck out for major markets. So maybe my question would be whether someone like her-- top talent at MSU-- needed to leave the state to 'succeed' or whether she would have considered local employment if it had a more global reach.

Research is only a small part of any given school... and how prominently it's recognised has a lot to do with how much disposable income the school has, and how much free time the professors have; it's not necessarily any reflection at all of how good the students turn out. Did you know that MSU had one of the first particle colliders (I forget what it was technically called, but it was part of the Grand Tour for new sci/eng students), and one of the first gas chromatographs, and was at the forefront of research in both areas? but not being funded like Notre Dame, MSU research tends to be one guy and his pet project and his very occasional paper, which doesn't get much recognition no matter how fundamental the research.

My sister and her husband worked for his dad's firm in Billings for a while (they're all architects; I think it must be a hereditary disorder -- at the time Billings was THE growth spot in MT, and they still couldn't make it there, so they reluctantly moved -- first to the company's Anchorage branch (which was fine during the boom years, not so good afterward -- my sister got lucky and sold her house when they left Alaska, but most people just gave the keys back to the bank), then later the whole family moved to California, and made tons of money doing big developments and custom stuff... enough to buy retirement property in Montana! And yes, if they could have made a decent living there, they would have stayed in Bozeman in the first place.

Of course, those of us who would wish to discourage rampant urban sprawl realise that you can either have a market for such professions, or you can have a stable town with very limited growth, but you can't have both.

[moritz391]

Originally Posted by Reziac

.... And yes, if they could have made a decent living there, they would have stayed in Bozeman in the first place.

Of course, those of us who would wish to discourage rampant urban sprawl realise that you can either have a market for such professions, or you can have a stable town with very limited growth, but you can't have both.

Very interesting. The trick is that architecture work doesn't have to really be local or strictly driven by suburban development. My firm designs LEED-platinum transit-oriented infill projects up and down the east coast. I will also likely be moving into CA. Since there is now way to be local to every project, there really is no need to be local to _any_ project. All the same, I would like to do some work in MT for personal reasons, but will not be designing sprawling subdivisions any time soon-- I don't really look forward to be disowned by my family.

At any rates, your posts give me a certain hope. I've been looking through thesis projects at MSU and it looks like there is some pretty good work. I may try to visit the school at some point before too long.

Thanks again!

[bigtrees]

Originally Posted by moritz391

Very interesting. The trick is that architecture work doesn't have to really be local or strictly driven by suburban development. My firm designs LEED-platinum transit-oriented infill projects up and down the east coast. I will also likely be moving into CA. Since there is now way to be local to every project, there really is no need to be local to _any_ project. All the same, I would like to do some work in MT for personal reasons, but will not be designing sprawling subdivisions any time soon-- I don't really look forward to be disowned by my family.

At any rates, your posts give me a certain hope. I've been looking through thesis projects at MSU and it looks like there is some pretty good work. I may try to visit the school at some point before too long.

Thanks again!

Do you need licensed architects?

[moritz391]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

Do you need licensed architects?

Not really. I outsource all of the stamping because the work is spread out over so many states. Having a license is a plus, though.

[bigtrees]

Then you're first step will to get licensed in the State. While Montana is lax in some things, one thing they are particular about is professional licensing.

Montana Law requires architects to get licensed in the state before practicing. By locating your company here, you'll be considered practicing in Montana even if your designs are for out-of-state clients. Additionally, the term "architect" is protected and can only be used by people that have received a license from the state.

37-65-301. License required. Except as provided in this chapter, no person may practice architecture in this state or use the title "architect" or "licensed architect" or any words, letters, figures, or other device indicating or intending to imply that he is an architect, without having qualified under this chapter.

You can read more at http://mt.gov/dli/arc/pdf/arc_statutes.pdf

[moritz391]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

Then you're first step will to get licensed in the State. While Montana is lax in some things, one thing they are particular about is professional licensing.

Montana Law requires architects to get licensed in the state before practicing. By locating your company here, you'll be considered practicing in Montana even if your designs are for out-of-state clients. Additionally, the term "architect" is protected and can only be used by people that have received a license from the state.

37-65-301. License required. Except as provided in this chapter, no person may practice architecture in this state or use the title "architect" or "licensed architect" or any words, letters, figures, or other device indicating or intending to imply that he is an architect, without having qualified under this chapter.

You can read more at http://mt.gov/dli/arc/pdf/arc_statutes.pdf

I am familiar with licensing law and protections on the term 'architect.' Most 'architects' aren't and most people in an architects office are typically classified as intern architects or designers. I simply was replying to a question as to whether any potential hires would be required to be licensed. They would not.

In terms of the situation I described, our firm works through a range of local firms to provide on-the-ground services including stamping and do not 'hang a shingle' in any one state. The group in Montana would be a service group/subsidiary of the parent company in DE. The term architect really has to do with servicing third parties. Producing design services as intellectual property not intended to secure building permits does not infringe upon licensing requirements.