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Old 07-12-2007, 10:54 AM
 
48 posts, read 123,877 times
Reputation: 18

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maid.in.montana View Post
I am a staunch advocate of Native American rights, just for the record. I see what you were trying to say. But please don't question my bloodline, either.

And also for the record, there are lots of native Montanans who feel the way I do... Native Americans as well!! I am not the only one. And of course you have a valid point. So let me qualify myself and say that the types of people that we resent the most are the ones who come in and rape the land for housing developments, drive up property values to the point that long-time residents cannot afford to pay their property taxes, and generally have no respect for the people of this great state who were here first, white OR red.

We have millionaires coming in who try to fence off public roads for their own use and then cost the taxpayers millions of dollars to fight them with lawsuits. Around here, the taxpayers always win. There are things called 'prescriptive easements' that win out over the millionaires mostly every time. We fight fight fight for our rights! But just the THOUGHT of having to fight is what gets our blood boiling.

If you tread lightly you will do fine. Buy an old house and fix it up! Don't pollute. Don't buy a trophy home where the deer and the antelope will no longer play because of the golf course built around it.... be sensitive to the locals. Don't come in here and run for city council a year after arriving... because you won't win the election.

You get my drift. I am truly sorry for being so outspoken on this. I should not have stereotyped Californians. My bad.

I realize completely that anybody has a right to live here. Just don't move in next door to me! Thank you very much.
But is the house next door to you an old house that can be fixed up?

(I'm being silly -- but FWIW I am fixing up an old house, ride my bike to work, drink beer out of cans now that glass recycling isn't possible, don't run for office, devote many hours a month to volunteering for the community, haven't sued anyone in a property dispute, haven't been sued in a property dispute, bake for my neighbors (they bake for me more though) and get along so far with everyone I've met here).

 
Old 07-12-2007, 01:47 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousdan View Post
But is the house next door to you an old house that can be fixed up?

(I'm being silly -- but FWIW I am fixing up an old house, ride my bike to work, drink beer out of cans now that glass recycling isn't possible, don't run for office, devote many hours a month to volunteering for the community, haven't sued anyone in a property dispute, haven't been sued in a property dispute, bake for my neighbors (they bake for me more though) and get along so far with everyone I've met here).
You get along with everyone except those "lots of native montanans" that
maid is so generously speaking for. I now see the light, it's the old song of I've got mine now slam the door behind me attitude.

Well maid, I've got a news flash for the "lots of montanans" of which you have elected yourself spokesman. The way you present YOUR opinion is your downfall. You can't expect anyone except the most rabid anti-population people to listen to you much less take you seriously.
As stated before, you don't get squatters rights to the state just because your family took the land from someone else via homestead. That's like saying slavery is ok for your family because you did it 100 years ago. If people developing here aggrivates you so much maybe you would be better off talking to the "lots of native montanans" and convincing them not to sell to developers in the first place, I wish you luck with that by the way... As for people coming here and destroying the state, after living here for a while I have to say I think the "lots of native montanans" have that task handled just fine without anyone coming here.
Since my arrival I have seen many,many "locals" dumping old appliances,beer cans,trash, old carcasses etc. in the woods which is something that most transplants would usually never do. This is because most are trained to ....wait a minute.... it's coming.....recycle! I know this is a strange idea to "lots of native montanans" but really, dumping in the woods is not good stewardship of the land now is it?
As for taxes driving people out, unfortunately that is happening to us as well but I don't blame the transplants, I blame the "lots of native montanans" for continually electing the same fools that set the taxes and allow them to rape the population of this state without challenge. No need for a show of hands, you know who you are.......
I am truely sorry that you hate people so much and get so worked up at all the people that have come here and all that will come here in the future but as I and others have said before, you have a better chance of getting mother nature to change the wind than stopping growth or people moving here.
 
Old 07-12-2007, 01:54 PM
 
47 posts, read 183,561 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
You get along with everyone except those "lots of native montanans" that
maid is so generously speaking for. I now see the light, it's the old song of I've got mine now slam the door behind me attitude.

Well maid, I've got a news flash for the "lots of montanans" of which you have elected yourself spokesman. The way you present YOUR opinion is your downfall. You can't expect anyone except the most rabid anti-population people to listen to you much less take you seriously.
As stated before, you don't get squatters rights to the state just because your family took the land from someone else via homestead. That's like saying slavery is ok for your family because you did it 100 years ago. If people developing here aggrivates you so much maybe you would be better off talking to the "lots of native montanans" and convincing them not to sell to developers in the first place, I wish you luck with that by the way... As for people coming here and destroying the state, after living here for a while I have to say I think the "lots of native montanans" have that task handled just fine without anyone coming here.
Since my arrival I have seen many,many "locals" dumping old appliances,beer cans,trash, old carcasses etc. in the woods which is something that most transplants would usually never do. This is because most are trained to ....wait a minute.... it's coming.....recycle! I know this is a strange idea to "lots of native montanans" but really, dumping in the woods is not good stewardship of the land now is it?
As for taxes driving people out, unfortunately that is happening to us as well but I don't blame the transplants, I blame the "lots of native montanans" for continually electing the same fools that set the taxes and allow them to rape the population of this state without challenge. No need for a show of hands, you know who you are.......
I am truely sorry that you hate people so much and get so worked up at all the people that have come here and all that will come here in the future but as I and others have said before, you have a better chance of getting mother nature to change the wind than stopping growth or people moving here.
I am a native Montanan and all I couldn't agree more. Maid, if you need a place to stay, I hear there is a vacant cabin outside of Lincoln.
 
Old 07-12-2007, 03:28 PM
 
20 posts, read 41,873 times
Reputation: 16
You are okay, Dangerous Dan. You have the right idea.

I don't need a place to stay.... I live in a great old house in a town that is very wary about development. Thank goodness! We see what has happened in the Bitterroot and in Missoula and Boze-Angeles and we are being VERY careful about development here.

Jimj, please learn how to spell. You lack credibility because of your primitive spelling ability. You also have no clue about local politics. Not sure where you live, but you are uninformed. Apparently you didn't vote in our last state election. Please read my posts AGAIN. (You can't spell so you obviously have a problem with reading comprehension as well.) I have not said that I hate anyone. I DO hate what the transplants have done to my state. Too much rampant development. I do hate that VERY much. I honestly can't fault anyone for wanting to make a better life for themselves, but GEEZ. Take a look around. Do these people really NEED a 10K square-foot home? We have the great outdoors, why do these yay-hoos need houses that big? Why do they think they can fence people off the rivers? The rivers and streams are public domain, even if they run through private property.

I am not claiming squatter's rights. I own my home outright with no mortgage whatsoever. And my ancestors were granted their land by the United States government. No squatting here. We could go around and around about what the United States Government has done to the Indians.... let's not go there. You are just as guilty as I am if you have white American ancestors. And believe me, I DO feel guilty about what we collectively did to the Native Americans.

I AM claiming my right to my opinion. And yes, in my community we ARE doing something about development. I will be danged if MY town ends up looking like Little California. It ain't gonna happen. And by the way, we have a very successful recycling plant here. We recycle everything we can. Paper, plastic, cans, glass. It's all recycled. Our local recycling center doesn't even require it to be sorted... we just drop it all off as-is. You are very childish in your assumption that only you high-and-mighty transplants recycle. Get a clue!

People litter everywhere. In some congested areas you will see litter. Illegal dumping is obviously not cool and most communities take a tough stand against it. I am amused that you think it's only the natives who litter. If you have seen all these littering, dumping scum-bag natives with your own eyes, then why not DO something about it? Afraid you're gonna get shot at or something? Be a man and stand up to them!!

I stand by my statement that the Bitterroot Valley has been ruined by Californicators. Trophy homes and development cause more blight upon the landscape than common litter does. You can pick up litter... and I do, but around here there isn't much litter.

Mother nature IS going to wipe out HUGE swaths of those trophy homes though. It may even happen this summer.
 
Old 07-12-2007, 04:11 PM
 
47 posts, read 183,561 times
Reputation: 24
Maid, where do you live?
 
Old 07-12-2007, 04:25 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
Ahh, now you have shown what other pseudonyms you go by with the language you use..... If anyone else is interested just look for similar language in this and other threads like this one, you will see the simalarities.

It saddens me that some people think they need to personally attack someone to bolster their argument, really did you think that lame attack at some possible spelling mistakes really causes some lack of credibility? I think not. The reasoning is still sound and you have yet to refute it.
As for the election, just because a Democan was elected and a Republicrat was thrown out for once means nothing. Exactly what has changed in Helena? A wonderful $400 rebate? Whoopee ding ding.....
All I can say at this point is clean up your own "lots of montanans" problem before you start to point fingers at others. There's plenty of good people moving here who are very concerned with where this state is headed, they don't have a myopic, self centered view of just the development that is happening (and poor me they blocked a meter of my view) they actually think of the bigger picture like health care for children,jobs that pay enough so you can eat and pay rent too and how do we get rid of waste instead of burying an old car and pumping it into it like used to be done here. Some of these terrible transplants bring a wealth of knowledge that did not exist here, money to fund quite a few public projects from health centers to community centers and food banks for people who really need the help. That new medical center that you may need one of these days to save your life? Wouldn't be here if it weren't for transplants creating the need and generating the income for business's to be able to donate to it.

That life flight helicopter that hopefully you will never need? How exactly do you think it is funded and why is it here?
Most of the fire,schools,libraries etc., How exactly do you think they get their funding,equipment and volunteers? You think it is all "lots of montanans"?
I would argue it is all of the above, people pulling together to support a common idea, protecting each other. Yes there are people here who are rude and could care less about what this place is both transplants and "lots of montanans", this is not constrained to just one group and this place contrary to your insinuation was not the paragon of virtue before transplants got here, this place was plenty messed up, just in different ways, as everywhere else is to one degree or another.
I agree, change is hard but the way to fix it is not to damn one group of people for the mistakes of some, that is called bigotry isn't it? How about complaining about the idiot people from all over that come here and then call the residents "villagers" in a condescending manner.
Oh well, off to make a difference in my community now......
 
Old 07-12-2007, 04:31 PM
 
20 posts, read 41,873 times
Reputation: 16
Let's talk some more about dumping, but this time let's talk about toxic mine waste. The Montana landscape has been raped and pillaged by out-of-state Big Money interests ever since mining arrived here on a large scale. What is going on these days is nothing new, but the commodity NOW is real estate, not precious minerals.

We have the largest number of adjacent Superfund sites in the nation. Missoula is sitting directly downstream on the Clark Fork River from a Superfund site of epic proportions. Mining sludge from Butte has drifted downstream for over 100 years and is now sitting in the form of toxic waste behind the Milltown Dam.

My brother and I used to fish for trout in the Clark Fork... back in the 60's and 70's. Some of those fish we caught were deformed... like something you might see in a Gary Larson Far Side cartoon or something. We were just kids, but we KNEW those fish were gross and something was definitely WRONG with them.

It wasn't until the 1970's that a grassroots environmentalist movement started here, started by NATIVE Montanans such as my Grandfather, who was a state legislator. (And a Republican, by the way.) We began to realize that this really IS the Last Best Place and we had better clean it up and conserve it before it was gone.

Legislation was passed in 1971 as the Montana Environmental Policy Act, and remember... this was passed by old-family Montana ranchers and businessmen who had been elected to serve in our legislature... not by some Johnny-come-lately Californians who think they invented recycling!!!

Read about the law here: Montana Environmental Policy Act (MEPA) — Montana Environmental Information Center

These days we have new threat: Land Developers who think they have been given divine right to carve up the remaining land here and sell it to the highest bidder. We 'little guys' now know how it must have felt to the Indians when we stole their homeland and fenced them out and drove them onto their less desirable tracts...

I think that is what we native Montanans feel most strongly about on this issue. This has traditionally been a place where the land is for everyone to enjoy, not a place for the elite to push the other ones out and claim ownership of the wilderness, for their own pleasure and profit.

New laws are being forged to prevent the Corporate Take-Over of this state. We just elected a Populist Senator, with more to come at the local levels. We passed a law recently limiting the state government's right to use its powers of Eminent Domain.

So JimJ, do not diss the natives here!! We are good stewards of this land. If it wasn't for far-seeing people like my Grandfather, you would not have this great place to live in.... the mining and lumber companies would have 'sold it down the river' a long time ago. You can bet your buttons on that!!!
 
Old 07-12-2007, 04:51 PM
 
20 posts, read 41,873 times
Reputation: 16
JCB, no offense, but where I live is a SECRET.

And JimJ. You are right. I should not have insulted your spelling. But I have a right to be bothered by the rampant development here. I know there are a lot of good people moving here from out of state. There's just too dang MANY of them, that's all. And it really bugs me, right or wrong.

And the ones with the Mega Bucks who want to shut the rest of us out? They really scare me, and they should scare you too. You know the ones... the ones with the Private River and the 10K sq. foot home at the base of their Own Mountain. THOSE are the ones who bug me the most. NOT you, JimJ. You are okay.

I am sorry to whom I have offended, but only if you are just an ordinary Joe!!

If you think you are gonna fence me off a public road or keep me outta the public waterways.... WATCH OUT!!
 
Old 07-12-2007, 04:57 PM
 
20 posts, read 41,873 times
Reputation: 16
Also, one more thing: JimJ, I have no other posting names on this forum. I just found this forum last night as I was doing some research on Montana history and I of course had to jump right in. Sorry I got so touchy. I really am!

I have only read one other thread here.... and have posted with this name only, last night and today. That's all.

If there are others here who echo my sentiments, I am not surprised at all.
 
Old 07-12-2007, 05:09 PM
 
48 posts, read 123,877 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by maid.in.montana View Post
JCB, no offense, but where I live is a SECRET.

And JimJ. You are right. I should not have insulted your spelling. But I have a right to be bothered by the rampant development here. I know there are a lot of good people moving here from out of state. There's just too dang MANY of them, that's all. And it really bugs me, right or wrong.

And the ones with the Mega Bucks who want to shut the rest of us out? They really scare me, and they should scare you too. You know the ones... the ones with the Private River and the 10K sq. foot home at the base of their Own Mountain. THOSE are the ones who bug me the most. NOT you, JimJ. You are okay.

I am sorry to whom I have offended, but only if you are just an ordinary Joe!!

If you think you are gonna fence me off a public road or keep me outta the public waterways.... WATCH OUT!!
Many of these people are only here a couple weeks out of the year though. Be that what it may.
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