Pick a place in MT to live (list) (Missoula, Great Falls: for sale, loan)

[mandapanda]

Helena is a great town. It is also within reach of Missoula - for shopping- and beautiful northern Idaho. You can go to Bozeman in about an hour and 15, and even less time if you feel the need for Butte.
The town is growing, but it just has so much to offer. It is established. It has the state government offices, a college, a small mall.

Have not been to Whitefish, but hear good things about it too. Just much smaller.

With a young family, I think Helena would be the best choice. You should go and visit before you decide. You can check the stats for different cities on this site. They give the schools, population, etc. Good luck.

As I warn everyone, Montana has no consumer protection and you are fair game - especially with the housing industry. Builders are not required to be licensed or bonded. They just pay their $75 to register. You, too, could be a contractor if you pay up.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by mandapanda

As I warn everyone, Montana has no consumer protection and you are fair game - especially with the housing industry. Builders are not required to be licensed or bonded. They just pay their $75 to register. You, too, could be a contractor if you pay up.

California has every which sort of consumer protection, yet houses here, especially tracts and condos, are much more poorly built than I ever saw in Montana (they remind me of cheap house trailers from the 1960s). Lawsuits trying to recover damages directly due to shoddy construction are endemic here. Contractors often leave things half-baked, and it's just tough unless you want to sue them... and good luck collecting. Some contractors even have a policy of going out of business every few years (and coming back under another corporate identity) just to duck the lawsuits. So much for California's consumer protection laws!!

Sometimes it's better to let the market sort things out, than to legislate it. MT is a small enough market that if Contractor X's work sucks, word will get around. Conversely in CA, if half the population knows all about Contractor X and avoids 'em like the plague, well, there are still 20 million suckers who never heard of 'em and don't know enough to go elsewhere.

[GiftShoppeGuy]

The distance from Missoula to Helena is 115 miles
Bozeman to Helena 95 miles
Great Falls to Helena 89 miles
Butte to Helena 64 miles

Helena to Kalispell 196 miles
Helena to Billings 224 miles


And, you have to be "proven" in Montana before you can become a contractor here, by that I mean, you have to be able to prove how many years you've been doing it, and, the application fee costs quite a bit more than $75.00, and, without being bonded, or licensed, you will be unable to pull building permits.... Liability insurance is also required before you can become licensed or bonded in the state.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy

The distance from Missoula to Helena is 115 miles
Bozeman to Helena 95 miles
Great Falls to Helena 89 miles
Butte to Helena 64 miles

Helena to Kalispell 196 miles
Helena to Billings 224 miles


And, you have to be "proven" in Montana before you can become a contractor here, by that I mean, you have to be able to prove how many years you've been doing it, and, the application fee costs quite a bit more than $75.00, and, without being bonded, or licensed, you will be unable to pull building permits.... Liability insurance is also required before you can become licensed or bonded in the state.

I hate to disagree with you Giftshoppe but in this you are incorrect. To be a licensed contractor all it costs you is the filing fee (about $75) and proof of workers comp. I went down and got permits to build and never built a house before. I have several friends who never worked in this state before and had never built a house before, paid the fees and built 2 houses. The runing joke between me and my attorney is all you need is a tool belt and a hammer to be a builder in this state.

From MT.GOV:
The purpose of Construction Contractor Registration is to assure that all construction contractors are competing fairly and are in compliance with the workers' compensation laws. The law also provides for protection from upward migration of workers' compensation liability. If the construction contractor is registered and in good standing on the date the contract begins, the liability for workers' compensation accidents will not be the responsibility of the general contractor or the homeowner. There is also a provision for industry and consumer education.

All incorporated construction contractors and construction contractors with employees must register. Construction contractors without employees, plumbers and electricians may register but registration is not required. The registration cost is $53 for a two-year registration. The department provides a list of all registered construction contractors. This list is available on the Internet. If a construction contractor does not register, there is a provision for a penalty of up to $500
Now I think you may have plumbers and Electricians mixed in to this. With those 2 occupations as well as septic you have to be licensed by the state and pass exams and spend appropriate time in trade to be licensed.
To be a contractor here you don't have to get a bond,license,insurance of any type (including comp if you have no employee's) but anyone who hires one without the above is playing with fire! There have been several "contractors" that have taken hundreds of thousands of $$ from people only to walk away with the money before the job is finished. The other problem in this state is there are NO building inspections required in the county, only in the city.
If you build in the county you will get a curisory electrical and plumbing inspection and one inspection on your septic that is all. If your builder botched your house you will never know until it falls down.

I encourage ANYONE who builds here to find a reputable building inspector and pay them outside of the contract and have them inspect the job in all stages to protect yourself.
I would also suggest a performance bond be taken so at least if the builder splits you have money to finish the job.
I have had 3 run-ins with contractors here and have found you are truely on your own, the only recourse is court which is a big expense,takes time and is totally un-needed if they would just pass some licensing laws to weed out the real crooks.

[jimj]

Oh, I almost forgot, since when do we in MT state anything in miles? Everytime anyone I know talks about how far away something is it's in time (usually hours) not miles. When I first got here I almost thought they didn't know how to do mileage here but now I really understand it, it could be 50 miles but wholly dependant on the type of roads....

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Originally Posted by jimj

Oh, I almost forgot, since when do we in MT state anything in miles? Everytime anyone I know talks about how far away something is it's in time (usually hours) not miles. When I first got here I almost thought they didn't know how to do mileage here but now I really understand it, it could be 50 miles but wholly dependant on the type of roads....

The "hours" came from the transplants. (and the state of Montana website)

The real way to calculate distance in Montana is by how many bottles of beer you'll drink between point a and point b.

How far is it from Kalispell to Missoula?... Oh, I'd say it about a 12 pack.

You'll really have to pardon me here, but all the $53.00 registration does, is prevent someone else from having to pull taxes out of what they pay you for a job being done. It lets the guy that's having the job done, off the hook with the state with regard to income tax, insurance and other compulsary payments made on behalf of the employee.

That $53.00 piece of paper lets the state know that when tax time comes around... You are the one they come looking for, not the other guy

So you go and spend $53.00, get someone to hire you to build their house, and you fall and hurt yourself.... you legally cannot sue the guy that hired you to do the job.... because, you are exempt... you are a contractor.... and if you didn't buy insurance to go with your little $53.00 piece of paper, then I guess "it would really suck to be you"......

I deal with permits on a daily basis, because I mess around and tear up city property..... do street openings, drain tile, city sidewalks, and yadda yadda yadda... without bonding and insurance, not only can I not get the jobs, but I can't get the jobs that pay.

It costs alot more for all of my paperwork/licensing than a mere $53.00.
My city license alone costs $150.00 (every year) and that's because I live out in the county.

My paperwork at the state level costs way over $175.00, and that's not counting my insurance and bonding costs..

And being a general contractor in Montana doesn't really even qualify you to do anything anyway. If I had some guy come up to me and expect me to sub him in somewhere because he had a $53.00 piece of paper, I'd send him packing.

The $53.00 is just for the state anyway..... Go into Kalispell with it and you'll definitely have to pay way more than that.
And then, with the $53.00 spent, you would most likely just be a sole proprietor anyway..... The state doesn't put sole proprietors on their books, so the $53.00 isn't going to take you as far as you think it might.

You are right, but yet, then again.... so am I

[mandapanda]

Jimj, you are right. Our house has foundation and framing problems and most likely will have to come down. The builders sued US. Said house was done, which it wasn't, unless you call having no appliances, floors, steps into the house, railings, no shower, several footers and headers,etc. finished. Their lawyers seem to think it qualified. Word of mouth means nothing because they then sue you for interfering with their business. Like a gag order. Bonding and licensing won't protect you from a con. And, they don't leave . They just keep building. Only way you can lose your registration in Montana is to not pay the money or to let someone else use your number.

[jimj]

Giftshop,
Yes, when you work for any government entity the requirements are more stringent and costly! Unfortunately it's not the same in the housing industry which allows a lot of people to be shafted on a regular basis. I've had 2 companies so far not do the job correctly to the point of having to get the stuff ripped out and redone and one sued me (and lost) and the other I am having to sue to get them to honor the warranty. I had high end flooring put in and after 6 months it is buckling and the seams are splitting. They agreed that it was a bad install but when they figured out how much it would cost to fix they simply said "no, sue us". The other one was an asphalt job that would sink when you drove on it and cracked all along the sides and would bounce when walked on and also pumped oil up from the center of it. They agreed it was a poor job but wanted to be paid anyway, even though they couldn't fix it. I eventually forced them to rip it out so I could hire someone else but it cost me 2k in attorney fees.

The burning question I have is that if it's a 12 pack from Kalispell to Missoula then how much to say Helena or Little Big Horn? A trunkfull????? If so, where do you keep the ice?

[JustAGoodPerson]

looks like Helena is too much in the mountains... snow??????

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Originally Posted by JustAGoodPerson

looks like Helena is too much in the mountains... snow??????

Really, the Helena valley is quite nice.
It's surrounded by mountains, but the valley itself is much larger than the Bitterroot valley is....

You'ld about have to visit, because the pics just don't do it any good justice.