In the case of State of Montana vs. Outsiders...it's been beaten to death...really. (Billings: extended stay, fit in)

[JeremiahJohnson]

Honestly, in all my research on my move up - for which I have spent a considerable amount of time, this is really old. REALLY OLD. I went through this in Oregon and it got old there. REALLY OLD. And Oregon is WAY, WAY ahead of Montana in this respect.
I'm just finishing up a long stay in So. California and really excited about moving to Montana. I have some family up there, we're all from Oregon. We all love Oregon. We all love Montana. I will, without a doubt, try all 50 flavors of this great nation if I so choose. To those willing to take a chance...don't over think it! And above all else - do not let the voice of the few (about six on this forum really, probably less) deter you. BYOJ is nice, anywhere, but often not reality. If I waited for a job to take me somewhere how much of my life would be wasted just waiting? My girlfriend and I would be sitting on our thumbs waiting on the discretion of someone to give us the "thumbs up you got work" sign until when? Retirement? Don't let that stop you. It's hard to get work without being there, known fact.
And every non-native American who is in Montana right now is a transplant or is a direct or indirect descendant of one. Period. I think the native american population must roll their eyes every time they hear the locals chiming in about entitlement. That applies to all of us in every state in this country for that matter. It just so happens YOUR ranch is in the way of THEIR new casino.
Respect local culture, contribute, get involved positively in your community, exercise manners (and I have met more than a few "native" Montanans who obviously skipped that lesson in life) and you will be fine. I've been there more times than I can count and not all Montanans are friendly, most are, but not all. It's the exact same socially as it is anywhere else, communities are just smaller, more spread out, and much less diverse.
So have fun and remember that some of the people who use these forums will try to misinform you or exaggerate the situation. Look past their inability to adapt and pursue your dream. They (the people so enthralled with their own bitterness) will have NO impact on your life there, none whatsoever, only you will. And very matter of factly, having lived in L.A. County for the last five years, I would love to see what hardship Montana's gonna throw my way. Hmmm...Mexican Mafia, traffic, pollution or a small percentage of angry locals? I think I'll take my chances. I've already seen her big winters and I grew up in a rural lifestyle so I know what the small uneducated redneck cliques are all about. They're such a minute percentage of the Montana population that it took more energy typing this sentence than I've ever spent worrying about them. Ho-Hum...zzz. These are probably the same people that took their 4th generation Montanan land and either sold it off or decided "hey, what a great place to put a new meth lab". These are the people that NEED to be driven out, as they have not been good stewards of the land nor have they done anything productive with it or protective of it. They're the same sort of people that will drive up into their own beautiful state's forest and decide to dump their old refrigerator on some log deck, because they apparently ran out of room in their backyard, then shoot holes in all the road signs on the way back down. Do you really need their acceptance? No. Heck no.
Now admittedly I don't have children yet to think about, or much debt, but if you really want it you'll figure it out and make it work. It's about the beauty of the land, the space, being outdoors, wildlife, and it belongs to ALL of us who have the right to call ourselves Americans. So go get it, I'll see you there.
I really hope this helps put an end to all the redundant banter that has infected these Montana threads for too long. God willing, it will infuse hope to those thinking about the life they dream of. Could be Montana for you, but you'll never know until you try.

[Radek]

It won't end it man. I can guarantee that.

I have to agree with you though. Even with that said, there is a 'cliquey' feel to any area. Any area that you've settled into like people do in Montana and rural communities across the nation have a distinct distrust of people not from within their 'community'.

Because of that, you often see people with very anti-outsider moods, particularly in the rural areas. I can't speak for the smaller towns and communities, but if they exist in Bozeman, Billings and Missoula, I haven't seen them. And I don't think they can exist in the larger communities because they're going to be more diverse, and in the case of Bozeman, Billings and Missoula, they're all home to large college populations which lend a certain transience to the population as every year, a few thousand rotate out, some stick around and some leave. Some are from Montana, and a lot are not. Because regardless of Montanan's views on outsiders, the universities love them.


So, no this won't settle the argument but your points are exceptionally valid for most areas of this beautiful state and most people planning to move here should not take the posters on this forum to be a complete sampling of the Montana population.

[Timberwolf232]

Just remember that not everyone has lived in LA county, and are pretty happy with the way things are (were). It's not about hating people because they move here, it's about people coming in bringing their "LA county" ways with them and getting mad when they don't get the instant gratification they are used to. Just because some people are happy living the way they do doesn't mean they are "uneducated rednecks". You'd be surprised how many people settle in just fine from all walks of life.

[GLS]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

Just remember that not everyone has lived in LA county, and are pretty happy with the way things are (were). It's not about hating people because they move here, it's about people coming in bringing their "LA county" ways with them and getting mad when they don't get the instant gratification they are used to. Just because some people are happy living the way they do doesn't mean they are "uneducated rednecks". You'd be surprised how many people settle in just fine from all walks of life.

Good points. Personally, I love California when I am in rural Northern California. I also love Montana when I am in Ronan, St Ignatius & Polson.
I never liked LA and I probably wouldn't like Bozeman. Considering my extended stay in college, I guess I must be an "educated redneck".

[JeremiahJohnson]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

Just remember that not everyone has lived in LA county, and are pretty happy with the way things are (were). It's not about hating people because they move here, it's about people coming in bringing their "LA county" ways with them and getting mad when they don't get the instant gratification they are used to. Just because some people are happy living the way they do doesn't mean they are "uneducated rednecks". You'd be surprised how many people settle in just fine from all walks of life.

I agree, and thank goodness most have not had to live in LA. There really isn't a lot of instant gratification here at all. It's really depressing. And the wage to cost of living ratio here is staggering. I would have loved to have had the experience of old Montana, but it's not just Montana. It's just the frustration of watching old America disintegrate in general I guess. I want people to move there for the right reasons, with the values I share with old Montana and old Oregon for that matter, Montana has always been kind to me. Probably because I have values. I just think that in these threads that intend to scare bad people off, Montana ends up scaring a lot of the good people off too. People who share a similar way of thinking and that less is more attitude. Nothing will stop rising housing costs. Nothing. And we can really only thank the overpopulated and self proliferating modern era we live in for that. I'm not worried about being absorbed into the old Montanan culture, I can only hope that I can contribute to it's preservation and help strengthen what's left of it. Rest assured that when I get there in January, everything that I endured in Los Angeles will stay in Los Angeles. And the last 5 years here will just be chalked up to life experience and a valuable lesson in exactly how people should not treat other people.

[JeremiahJohnson]

Lol, I knew that redneck comment was a loaded gun. No offense I hope.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by JeremiahJohnson

Lol, I knew that redneck comment was a loaded gun. No offense I hope.

Heh heh... No worries.

[Redraven]

I came to Montana from Pennsylvania in 1948. My uncles had already moved out here, my step-father was a Wyoming cowboy turned carpenter.
Overall, I would say the attitudes haven't changed much in all these years. If you move to Montana, you don't HAVE to hunt, fish, camp, or own guns. BUT, don't put down the folks who do enjoy those things. If there isn't a symphony in your new town, perhaps it is because nobody has ever wanted one. Same thing with ballet, or little theater, or any other "big city" cultural icons. Maybe they still don't want one. They might also be quite happy with Penneys and Target and Kmart and Walmart. Sure, they have heard of Macy's and Herbergers and Victoria's Secret, but they probably don't think they NEED one in their town.
The bottom line is, you wanted to move to this little Montana town because of the life style you thought you would find. Be happy with it. DO NOT try to bring in the lifestyle you left behind. You will never fit in, and you will never be happy. Adapt to your new environment, and you will be welcomed.
Usually.

[seven of nine]

Standing ovation!

[Blue Jeans Blue Eyes]

Originally Posted by Redraven

I came to Montana from Pennsylvania in 1948. My uncles had already moved out here, my step-father was a Wyoming cowboy turned carpenter.
Overall, I would say the attitudes haven't changed much in all these years. If you move to Montana, you don't HAVE to hunt, fish, camp, or own guns. BUT, don't put down the folks who do enjoy those things. If there isn't a symphony in your new town, perhaps it is because nobody has ever wanted one. Same thing with ballet, or little theater, or any other "big city" cultural icons. Maybe they still don't want one. They might also be quite happy with Penneys and Target and Kmart and Walmart. Sure, they have heard of Macy's and Herbergers and Victoria's Secret, but they probably don't think they NEED one in their town.
The bottom line is, you wanted to move to this little Montana town because of the life style you thought you would find. Be happy with it. DO NOT try to bring in the lifestyle you left behind. You will never fit in, and you will never be happy. Adapt to your new environment, and you will be welcomed.
Usually.

EXACTLY!

It's that 'I gotta have what I had in my old hometown' that gets me the most!! We used to enjoy going to Spokane or Missoula to shop for school clothes for the kids. It gave us a reason to go somewhere once in awhile and we didn't have to deal with the traffic or parking lot lights at home.