So, you wanna be a Montanan? (Missoula, Shelby: sales, lease, low crime)

[elkslayin]

I've lurked here for quite some time, thought I would finally post. Frankly, I am amazed at some of the post on this board. It seems, that Montana really attracts some romantics and idealist.

Heres the reality: The Montana economy is essentially non-existant. We have some jobs in the medical area in Missoula and after that its a crap shoot. Log home builders here I suffering with several major firms going under. Several large stick-frame home builders are out of business or treading water. The reason this is important is construction made up a huge part of western Montana economy. The housing cost remain high or increasing with sales down, inventory has been limited by those who cannot sell at lower prices, or by those that refuse to take a loss.

Community: Western Montana is not as friendly is many would like to think, most folks have grown sick of the problems associated with high growth areas and outsiders who bring their lifestyle with them, as opposed to adopting the Montana way of life. Stark and nasty lines have been drawn b/w environmentalist and locals, with most of the green issues comming from out of state sources. By in large, there is a very big Anti-out of state mentality here, especially for those folks from CA, WA, CO and OR.

Living: Western Montana has a surprisingly high crime rate. Montana has a large transient population with a lot of folks just passing thru. In addition to that we have a pretty serious issue with meth, and even more problems with poverty. Throw all three of those factors into a kettle and the end result that boils out is high crime. Hunting in the Bitterroot valley is marginal at best, with many prime spots owned privately and not open to hunting. Eastern Montana has seen a massive increase in land being leased and also closed to public hunting. Gardening season here is short but pretty good.

In conclusion, unless you are in damn good shape financially, Montana is probably not for you. I know personally so many good folks who come out here trying to start over and end up much worse than they were before they came out. I can think of a few who threw their hands up and went back where they were from. Montana is pretty state, beautiful in fact, but it doesn't put food on the table. Right now there are simply no opportunities here. I myself have owned a business here for many years, and I am facing the reality that my children will have to move away in order to find decent jobs. We have plenty of people with college degrees swinging hammers and selling hamburgers.
Anyway, hope this helps some folks who are wondering.

[bigtrees]

I think you sum it up very well...

I'm a native Montanan living in Washington State trying to make some money before I move back to my home state. It's hard growing up in the Flathead and not being able to return because of the lack of the economy and high cost of housing....I hope by saving my pennies here I'll be able to return someday. But I surely know that I'll need a bucket load of cash and life is all together much easier here in Washington than in Montana....

Alas, you can't have it all.

[elkslayin]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

I think you sum it up very well...

I'm a native Montanan living in Washington State trying to make some money before I move back to my home state. It's hard growing up in the Flathead and not being able to return because of the lack of the economy and high cost of housing....I hope by saving my pennies here I'll be able to return someday. But I surely know that I'll need a bucket load of cash and life is all together much easier here in Washington than in Montana....

Alas, you can't have it all.

Hey BT, if you can find a place with low crime, good jobs, and affordable housing, let me know, I'll move there too I think people really don't grasp how hard it is to live here and how misearble some are with their money situation. seems people only think of the mountains and streams etc. Those mountain and streams come with a heavy cost.

[Reart]

Originally Posted by elkslayin

I've lurked here for quite some time, thought I would finally post. Frankly, I am amazed at some of the post on this board. It seems, that Montana really attracts some romantics and idealist.

Heres the reality: The Montana economy is essentially non-existant. We have some jobs in the medical area in Missoula and after that its a crap shoot. Log home builders here I suffering with several major firms going under. Several large stick-frame home builders are out of business or treading water. The reason this is important is construction made up a huge part of western Montana economy. The housing cost remain high or increasing with sales down, inventory has been limited by those who cannot sell at lower prices, or by those that refuse to take a loss.

Community: Western Montana is not as friendly is many would like to think, most folks have grown sick of the problems associated with high growth areas and outsiders who bring their lifestyle with them, as opposed to adopting the Montana way of life. Stark and nasty lines have been drawn b/w environmentalist and locals, with most of the green issues comming from out of state sources. By in large, there is a very big Anti-out of state mentality here, especially for those folks from CA, WA, CO and OR.

Living: Western Montana has a surprisingly high crime rate. Montana has a large transient population with a lot of folks just passing thru. In addition to that we have a pretty serious issue with meth, and even more problems with poverty. Throw all three of those factors into a kettle and the end result that boils out is high crime. Hunting in the Bitterroot valley is marginal at best, with many prime spots owned privately and not open to hunting. Eastern Montana has seen a massive increase in land being leased and also closed to public hunting. Gardening season here is short but pretty good.

In conclusion, unless you are in damn good shape financially, Montana is probably not for you. I know personally so many good folks who come out here trying to start over and end up much worse than they were before they came out. I can think of a few who threw their hands up and went back where they were from. Montana is pretty state, beautiful in fact, but it doesn't put food on the table. Right now there are simply no opportunities here. I myself have owned a business here for many years, and I am facing the reality that my children will have to move away in order to find decent jobs. We have plenty of people with college degrees swinging hammers and selling hamburgers.
Anyway, hope this helps some folks who are wondering.

Baha...hahaha. Are you freaking kidding me? The whole economy of The United states is messed up right now. It is the housing bubble that has bursted across the U.S. The manipulated "housing crisis".

High crime? Ha Bahahaha. Down south the "Police" are organized crime. That stuff you hear about southern government corruption is true! You can buy dope from some police down there. Meth is all over the place and it has turned into a police state in the south (for a reason) .

You can't hunt on any land down there without spending 3 thousand a year in a club. I see herds of deer running around here! River land is open to the public here! You can't spit without being in violation of someones territory down there. All I got to do here is be cool with people and offer a little skilled labor and they are open. I am thinking of some volunteer work too, because I like it here.

Are you all going to complain about the schools too? I got a lot of stories about southern schools .

I would rather deal with an upfront suspicious @ss than a smooth backstabber.

I actually like the people here so I don't know what you are talking about. They like to complain and whine about things too, but I think that is human nature.

I love my southern heritage. My ancestors fought in the revolutionary war and for the confederates, but we have lost our way in many ways now. We could use some lessons.

Montana is a good State with good people in it.

[magoomafoo]

Reart, montana is a great state with greater people. What elkslyr is trying to say is that so many out of staters express the desire to move here for the wrong reasons. They see Montana as this dreamy unexplored wild wolf howling mountainous oasis. I see the out of staters who move here with pipe dreams of becoming grizzly adams a large part of the problem with the economy in our state. Elkslyr was right about the log home businesses going under. Know why?? Largely because out of staters who move here with cash in hand AT THE TIME think they need to have the biggest most audacious log home in the county complete with all the ammenities and comforts that they are used to in, oh lets say California. Then...when the cash they had when they moved here is gone, they decide to move back to Cali and try to sell their $800,000 dream cabin. The crime is not all too bad, drugs are constantly on the rise, but they are everywhere. The economy? Ha ha. Yes it is bad everywhere. BUT..in a state that has one of the lowest average incomes in the nation, it hits hard, very hard. The Yellowstone Club is one great example. Hunting? Don't get me started on that...I prefer not to hunt on private land...My tags are filled most every year. No snow this year meant no elk, but thats okay, my family has enough deer in for the year. But I will tell you this...I am sick of out of state hunters. When the land that I have hunted on since I was 12 becomes so crowded with out of staters that I have to go somewhere else, then yes, I'm ticked off. I've come to the conclusion that I should go to Washington next year for hunting season. I should be the only one in there because it seems like the entire state of Washington is here.

[Reart]

I am just getting the feeling that you all don't much care for Californians. I have heard a lot about the Californians here. I used to work on those 8,000 sq.ft houses down south. Just absolutley rediculous. It became an eye sore in the appalachian range to see these houses sticking out. Many of these people were extremely liberal tree huggers. Anyone else see the Irony of this? Hypocrisy at it's finest. The others half were just spoiled yuppies that had to have the biggest and best of everything. I especially like it when these types try to dictate policy with their vast wisdom to the local "commoners". It is a plague. It is this kind of ideal of consumption and keeping up with the Joneses that has landed us in the economic dispair that we are in. Aren't the Californians asking for money from the rest of the United States? They are bankrupt! The whole state! I can see why people would get upset about them spreading the sickness.

And they want to raise taxes to bail out the rich on wallstreet and these idiots that spend more than they make. I hate Socialism. I dont have a problem with the rich, but I do have a problem with fools that spend more than they make and thus dragging all of us down.

Oh my gosh, everybody here has got me complaining about west coasters and I hardly know anything about them. From what I hear and have read, they are similar to a type I know.

Sorry for the rant.

[mattman3seven]

Simply put, there is no such thing as a "simple life". There are people who think that if they move out of the city and into a smaller populated area with less minorities, that somehow their life is going to be easier. As far as jobs though, hopefully one would not move here until they found one. There are some pretty good industries in MT if you want to work for them and live in really small towns!

As far as people being rude...I haven't seen it. Granted we live in Shelby, so that may make a huge difference from Missoula and a few of the other larger towns in MT. But at the same time it helps that we know quite a few people already since my wife grew up around here. But still in general compared to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, the people are much more down to earth and much friendlier.

I guess my wife and I are lucky we both have pretty good jobs here as well. I can't complain about anything.

I do understand the original posters' complaints, althouh I think they are a little exaggerrated. There are too many people moving here trying to escape. That part I do not understand. Move here to enjoy being here, I say. But compared to peolpe from the rest of the country, Montanas are much much nicer people than most. Go live in a big city then come back to MT and you will see just how laid back MT really is. But again, I can't speak for the "cities" in MT. A city is a city no matter where you are. Cities suck, unless you are young and single! IMO of course!

[elkslayin]

Originally Posted by magoomafoo

Reart, montana is a great state with greater people. What elkslyr is trying to say is that so many out of staters express the desire to move here for the wrong reasons. They see Montana as this dreamy unexplored wild wolf howling mountainous oasis. I see the out of staters who move here with pipe dreams of becoming grizzly adams a large part of the problem with the economy in our state. Elkslyr was right about the log home businesses going under. Know why?? Largely because out of staters who move here with cash in hand AT THE TIME think they need to have the biggest most audacious log home in the county complete with all the ammenities and comforts that they are used to in, oh lets say California. Then...when the cash they had when they moved here is gone, they decide to move back to Cali and try to sell their $800,000 dream cabin. The crime is not all too bad, drugs are constantly on the rise, but they are everywhere. The economy? Ha ha. Yes it is bad everywhere. BUT..in a state that has one of the lowest average incomes in the nation, it hits hard, very hard. The Yellowstone Club is one great example. Hunting? Don't get me started on that...I prefer not to hunt on private land...My tags are filled most every year. No snow this year meant no elk, but thats okay, my family has enough deer in for the year. But I will tell you this...I am sick of out of state hunters. When the land that I have hunted on since I was 12 becomes so crowded with out of staters that I have to go somewhere else, then yes, I'm ticked off. I've come to the conclusion that I should go to Washington next year for hunting season. I should be the only one in there because it seems like the entire state of Washington is here.

Mag, you hit the nail on the head. I am not criticing Montana or Montanans, just stating the way it is. I love it here, been here since '92, adopted the local values and fit right in. I hunt, fish, camp, garden, cut firewood, and swear at anybody with CA tags on their car, just like all the natives I am astonished with how many people just pack up and move out here with this "we'll make it work" attitude thinking only of the fresh air, mountain streams, and simply way of life, (the one all of us locals are too 'stupid" too appreciate.) Then when they get here reality sets in and along with it virtual poverty. Next thing you know, they want to twist Montana into whatever it was they were running from to begin with. I'm just sayin, if you do decide to come out here, do so with a firm understanding what you will face, and an even deeper appreciation for what it means to be called a Montanan.

[Reart]

There does seam to be a good amount of division across the united states. We are so "diverse" now that we have such a wide range of ethics and morals. No foundation to stand on as Americans, or what Americans are. A country divided can not stand. I am not talking about racial or religious lines. I am talking about a common standard of how to be. Honestly it scares me a little.

[Gman2007]

Originally Posted by elkslayin

Gardening season here is short but pretty good.

Just picked through the last of the spinach and cut a nice bowl full of broccoli today! Letting a couple of the cabbage and kholarabi stay as an experiment to see what this next cold snap does to it all.