Tax evaders living in Montana? (Whitefish: insurance, home, construction)

[bigtrees]

Another thread on this forum reminded me about Montana tax evaders. While growing up there, it seemed like we had quite a collection of tax evaders living in Whitefish. Some claimed the US Constitution said taxes were illegal, others had differing reasons.

One of the guys who I think was a tax evader is the person they named the cultural arts center for in Whitefish - I think by giving the money to a charity he didn't have to pay tax which made him really happy.

Have you ever heard much about tax evaders in your corner of the state? I'm sure they're sitll there but not sure if they're talked about much. (Obviously - no names please.)

The other way that I remember a lot is employers paying their employees under the table. Say you would normally get hired for $10, and taxes would drop your income down to $9. If your employer pays you $9.50 an hour under the table, then you take home more than you would otherwise and the employer can pay his employee less than he would otherwise, so some thought it was a win-win situation.

Ever hear of this happening in Montana recently? In Washington State I don't hear of it too often because people seem to play pretty straight arrow. I kenw it happened a lot in the construction industry when I lived in Arizona.

[Joe Doer]

Paying the employee "under the table" also eliminates the need to pay 7.5% of the wages for the employers share of social security and medicare withholding. In your scenario of the $10 per hour employee that is an additional 75 cents per hour saved. Not paying workers comp also eliminates about 10% which results in another $1.00 per hour.

That's what ticks off employers. A $10 per hour employee actually costs over $12 and can be more if insurance or retirement plans are offered. I pay my guys about $17 per hour, so with insurance, it costs me about almost $23 per hour.

[Stephan_K]

I believe that there are those who believe they should pay certain tax, owe that tax, and refuse to pay that tax... these kinds of people are tax evaders. What is your definition of a tax evader ?

[bigtrees]

Originally Posted by Stephan_K

I believe that there are those who believe they should pay certain tax, owe that tax, and refuse to pay that tax... these kinds of people are tax evaders. What is your definition of a tax evader ?

That's an interesting question. The first part "those who believe they should" a little tricky.

The people I know north of Whitefish believe that income taxes are unconstitutional and therefore they don't have to pay income tax.

So I suppose it's reasonable to say that not all people would consider them to be tax evaders.

[yetiyeti]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

Another thread on this forum reminded me about Montana tax evaders. While growing up there, it seemed like we had quite a collection of tax evaders living in Whitefish. Some claimed the US Constitution said taxes were illegal, others had differing reasons.

Why hello OP, how are you today?

Are you sure those people really mean illegal? I assume they are talking about a state's activity to tax them. My opinion is that a state wouldn't do anything illegal, especially out in the open, such as collecting income taxes. I wonder if those people are confused with the word illegal.

I also understand that tax evaders mean that they are appropriately liable for taxes and choose not to pay them....I wonder if that is a confusion with a "tax evader's" accountant finding proper deductions or even using federal laws that reduce or negate their tax burden.

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

That's an interesting question. The first part "those who believe they should" a little tricky.

The people I know north of Whitefish believe that income taxes are unconstitutional and therefore they don't have to pay income tax.

So I suppose it's reasonable to say that not all people would consider them to be tax evaders.

I don't agree with the income tax and have stated my arguments with the Gov. I don't consider myself to be a tax evader either. I pay every tax the law states I have to without question. Now for those tax laws that do not have clear definition or any definition at all, I want clarification and definition before I pay them ! Does that make me a tax evader ?

I'm not evading anything, I'm pursuing its validity before paying it so I'd say no. I'd say that makes me a true American !

Many of the positions taken on this argument have been proven invalid according to the law and any of those people currently taking those invalid positions I would consider to be a tax evader without question. There is only one position on the income tax argument I am aware of that has validity and has been proven so in numerous court cases challenging it. All others (and there are many) would render one a tax evader IMO, probably much like the people you mention in Whitefish (going out on a limb and saying so without knowing exactly their position on the argument either).

EVERY state has many people that think the income tax is unconstitutional. I have always heard that MT has the most (along with the militia groups and so on) . I don't think they have near as many as say FL or CA or even TX. The ignorant thing with this topic IMO is the media coupled with the stupidity of the (majority of) American people labels anyone that raises a valid argument or question on this subject a tax evader and someone that is un-American...

That is a shame because those very same types of people created this country we all live in today and have given us the ability to enjoy the independence and liberties (that are left and haven't gotten stripped away yet) that they originally set in place with this very same reasoning and foundation !

[yetiyeti]

Well said : )

Thank you for your mature, fair post, Stephan_K.

[Gman2007]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

Have you ever heard much about tax evaders in your corner of the state? I'm sure they're sitll there but not sure if they're talked about much. (Obviously - no names please.)

The state has a public list of those who are delinquent in state and out of state:

Department of Revenue - State of Montana

[jimj]

I'm betting there's way more in other states (like CA) than here, the people there just don't talk about it besides MT has the reputation for being very independent and anti-government (deserved or not).
Think about it, a state like CA or TX with a massive illegal population and day labor all over the place that work under the table. The amount of day labor alone HAS to be greater than the population of our entire state!