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Old 03-12-2009, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,544 posts, read 12,620,926 times
Reputation: 2958

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TypicalCalifornian View Post
I would guess these kinds of increases are beyond the control of management team and directly due to legal or environmental nonsense.
If the power company doesn't own its own generators, it's at the mercy of whoever is wholesaling electricity (and may be forced to buy from the most expensive supplier, if MT's "deregulation" is like CA's). During "deregulation" most power plants were sold off, primarily to foreign and out-of-area interests, who have no interest in anything except sucking every last dollar out of the public ASAP.

After MT "deregulated" (Montana Power's owners' exit strategy), CA copied 'em, and that's when our rates grew to 10x higher than they'd been, in less than 10 years. The city of Los Angeles was, at the time, blessed with Mayor Reardon who could see where this was going and refused to sell the city's power generator system... so folks living in L.A. still enjoy cheap electricity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TypicalCalifornian View Post
Keep voting in these type of people and we'll all be living in eastern European style poverty.
What with creeping socialism and selling off our infrastructure to foreign interests, I think we're closer to that than most folks realise.
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Old 03-12-2009, 11:08 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,927,017 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
There are problems inherent in the product, most can be offset by refining and blending with petro-diesel. It is still time consuming, and you do need some equipment to do the refining, but it is the simplest process of the alternatives.

There are risks, you do use lye in the process, but it is not as dangerous as working with a solar cell that can't be shut off as long as there is light!
So far I have read there are many different refining/preparation processes for waste/new veggie oil. This is the simplest magic formula I have found with no problems so far. Tried and trusted in a powerstroke... Fuel filter get changed every month religiously too !

20 gallons of WVO-Highly filtered down to 5 microns. OR NEW veggie oil.
2 1/2 gallons of Kerosene
1 gallon of gasoline.
(Winter) 10 ounces of anti gel

Probably works perfect in a diesel genset too I would imagine...
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:58 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,577,971 times
Reputation: 15493
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
So far I have read there are many different refining/preparation processes for waste/new veggie oil. This is the simplest magic formula I have found with no problems so far. Tried and trusted in a powerstroke... Fuel filter get changed every month religiously too !

20 gallons of WVO-Highly filtered down to 5 microns. OR NEW veggie oil.
2 1/2 gallons of Kerosene
1 gallon of gasoline.
(Winter) 10 ounces of anti gel

Probably works perfect in a diesel genset too I would imagine...
Or you can buy a home Bio processor that seem to vary from about $900-$3000 depending on how much you want to make in a 24hr period.
Home BioDiesel | Biodiesel Processor
Or build your own: http://www.murphysmachines.com/
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,927,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Or you can buy a home Bio processor that seem to vary from about $900-$3000 depending on how much you want to make in a 24hr period.
Home BioDiesel | Biodiesel Processor (http://www.homebiodiesel.com/processor/ - broken link)
Or build your own: Murphy's Machines - Construction Plans For BioDiesel Processor Systems, Waste Oil Heating
They want $3K for a small processor (not delivered) ! Expensive setup . When you think about it, adding the cost of a factory manufactured setup like that puts the ROI out way too far for the average Joe that would consume the little fuel needed for a genset. In my eyes, anyone hard core wanting to make their own fuel is going to build their own setup and do so for less than a couple hundred bucks at that scale.

Buying new veggie oil along with the processing costs and an expensive factory setup, you'd never get a return while diesel at the pumps hangs around $2 either. To make it worth while, one has to have a home made setup... and getting used oil is where the big savings is, which it's almost impossible to find unallocated used oil anymore. You have to buy new if your gonna do it. And if you happen upon some used... it's a bonus !

That's why my thinking of a simple mix with no fuel overhead costs is the way to go. One 55 gallon drum and an electric paint mixer in overhead costs gets you all the genset fuel you can make . And hell, while diesel stays under $2... just go to the pump ! Ain't even worth the time to mix your own !
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Old 03-13-2009, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,544 posts, read 12,620,926 times
Reputation: 2958
Does this explain all the fights out behind McDonalds and Wendy's?? whoda thunk used grease was that valuable?

Actually, most used cooking oil is already sold to waste-oil conglomerators, who process it for fuel and animal feed.

And don't forget the other piece of equipment you'll need -- a forklift to handle the 55 gallon drums of used oil, at something like 300 pounds apiece. That, or a team of strapping lads at your beck and call...
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Old 03-13-2009, 11:33 AM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,927,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Does this explain all the fights out behind McDonalds and Wendy's?? whoda thunk used grease was that valuable?

Actually, most used cooking oil is already sold to waste-oil conglomerators, who process it for fuel and animal feed.

And don't forget the other piece of equipment you'll need -- a forklift to handle the 55 gallon drums of used oil, at something like 300 pounds apiece. That, or a team of strapping lads at your beck and call...
Unless things have changed over the last few years, when i was in the restaurant business mid 90's to a few years ago we (the restaurant) NEVER got paid for the waist oil. And we would go through 40 gallons a week (fried chix joint) which is A LOT ! Back in the 70's and early 80's some Co.'s used to pay the restaurants for it... and it wasn't much at that !

Those fast food chains don't produce all that much on a weekly basis either. On average they only have 2 small fryers each holding about 4 - 5 gallons of oil getting changed weekly. Not very much oil in my book...

As for 55 gallon drum handling equipment... that's what the wife is for !!!! Na... got a TC40 New Holland with a loader and hoe. You can also purchase oil in the 30 gallon drums too which a good dolly and lift gate delivery truck will handle quite easily ! The same for used oil... just don't fill them up all the way and keep them around 100#.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,544 posts, read 12,620,926 times
Reputation: 2958
From what I've seen, the restaurant usually gets it hauled away for free, or sometimes pays a company to pick up the drums of waste oil ... but that company then sells it to some central processing outfit. They ain't hauling it off just to do the eatery a favour
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,927,017 times
Reputation: 548
I thought that's what you meant... For years I have often wondered too how those guys can stay in business picking up oil and selling it to another company. Simply by considering the price of diesel (cheaper now apposed to 8 months ago), cost of a driver, TANKER truck insurance, THE truck maintenance itself, oil storage both in the field and at a home facility they are responsible for... how the hell do they make any money at the few cents a gallon they are probably getting for it ?!

Probably one of those things where it's a second job to them for a few scroungy bucks once in a while and something they just love doing... Never seen one with a decent running truck either. Always looked like something that just crawled its way out of the wrecking yard... maintenance nightmare .
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,544 posts, read 12,620,926 times
Reputation: 2958
Would YOU use a shiny new truck when its regular job is to get bashed by 300 lb. oil drums leaking from every seam?? and would YOU hire rocket scientists for that job? Methinks not

Minimum wage and anything that runs, more like. -- Back about 20 years, scrap fat and waste oil wholesaled for between 3 and 8 cents per pound (dunno what it is now) which is up to $150 per barrel at the top price. So it's worth doing, even as a side job.
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Old 03-13-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,544 posts, read 12,620,926 times
Reputation: 2958
Here's an alternative for restaurants -- use your waste oil to generate electricity with "Vegawatt"!

Dunno how cost-effective it would be in real-life, but they have a cost/benefit analysis on the site.
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