Pitbulls banned in Montana! (Billings: inspectors, costs, safe)

[bigtrees]

Originally Posted by jimj

I know my past and current insurance makes it cost prohibitive to own several breeds of dogs, pretty much banning 'em as I refuse to pay the cost. If insurance can be/is mandated for driving a car in case of an accident then what would be the difference if it were mandated for owning a dog for the same reason?
Let the owners decide if it's worth it to them to pay the increased cost.

As for this mandate "creating" any lawsuit or lawyer issues, it's worse if you aren't insured. If a someone is injured don't you think that they'd expect to be repaid for doctor bills etc? That being the case if you're uninsured I'd bet you'd be sued creating just the situation that's not wanted. If you're insured at least there'd be something there not to mention if you're sued the insurance company is bound by the policy to defend you.

I don't see that requiring insurance that covers your animal for dog bite injuries is beneficial to the owner or the public. People with insurance are 5x more likely to be sued than people without insurance because if you don't have money there is no point to getting sued. (I'm not making this up, it's widespread common knowledge among engineering professionals). (Vehicles are an exception because of the serious damage and injuries that they incur daily, dogs are a much smaller issue.)

I have been bitten by a dog before while riding my bike. The dog got excited and went for my legs. I stopped, told the owner, and then called animal control. The guy looked at me strange and said she's never done that before. Since he had a 4 year old around, I'm sure he felt the dog was quiet and docile.

The problem with mandating insurance is it starts the government down the path of requiring insurance to protect against everything. Then the only people that win are the insurance companies. For example, here is Washington they require you to have a liability policy when you fly a model airplane in the sky because "it might injur someone." I think it's honestly a crock, something that the people who sell the insurance policies (in this case it's the national society for model aircraft) push for more sales. I think it's overkill and something that I don't agree with.

[bigtrees]

Originally Posted by jimj

Range, I'd suspect it's that way in many areas, people just don't talk about it.

The Stoltz Land and Lumber Company has a long-standing policy that any dogs seen chasing wildlife on company property will be shot on site, and the Company will stand behind the employee's actions.

So yes, it is similiar in Columbia Falls.

[bigtrees]

I just have to include this link. It shows that not everyone agrees with the OP and others who feel pitbulls are no more aggressive than other dogs.

Pit Bull FAQ - Dangerous Dogs - DogsBite.org

[jenben777]

oh there ya go...an anti pit bull website is where your getting this information...actually if you really do the research labradores are the number one dog that bites humans.

[bigtrees]

Jenben, last time I checked no one on these forums said that your dog bites. We believe you that yours doesn't.

The website I posted isn't an anti-pitbull website. It's a website that is against biting dogs, and more specfically, dogs that bite and don't let go. There are three other breeds they feature as well.

The issue the website shows isn't the number of times that a dog bits. It's the fact that some dogs don't let go when they do bite. The website mentions that pitbulls have a tendancy to grab and shake rather than just letting go, which increases the severity of wounds.

Is there any truth to this? I think it makes sense because bulldogs are known for holding on. If so, that'd make sense why the damage they inflict is worse than other species.

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by jenben777

The reason your a senior member on this forum is because you think your a know it all and an expert about everything.

I have a good education, I'm a life long learner, quite a bit of life experience, I've had two respectable careers; I guess I am a pretty smart guy if spelling doesn't count.
I also had two pitbulls and had a close friend who bred pits. I was a police officer for 8 years and dealt with pits at least every week. I was bit more than once by them, one of those bites was pretty bad.
I have also shot at least three that I can think of, two of these were at the owners request after they bit children.

To be truthful jenben777, my experience in this area is probably a lot more extensive than yours I've known that since your first or second post but I didn't rub your nose in it.

Originally Posted by jenben777

a dog simply cannot be bred for aggression.

Statements like this do not give you much credibility. Selective breeding my friend, selective breeding. Have you studied a man names Charles Darwin?

Don't feel personally attacked by some of us not agreeing with you, I trust that your dog is a great dog, and that there are many other pits that are great dogs. One of my pits was great and probably fine around anyone, but he did surprise me a time or two.
I finally got rid of both, partly because of the stigma that goes with them, and partly because I didn't want to get my ass sued off if they ever hurt anyone.

[jenben777]

Originally Posted by bigtrees

Jenben, last time I checked no one on these forums said that your dog bites. We believe you that yours doesn't.

The website I posted isn't an anti-pitbull website. It's a website that is against biting dogs, and more specfically, dogs that bite and don't let go. There are three other breeds they feature as well.

The issue the website shows isn't the number of times that a dog bits. It's the fact that some dogs don't let go when they do bite. The website mentions that pitbulls have a tendancy to grab and shake rather than just letting go, which increases the severity of wounds.

Is there any truth to this? I think it makes sense because bulldogs are known for holding on. If so, that'd make sense why the damage they inflict is worse than other species.

All breeds of dogs bite , yes i agree some bite harder or longer than others, but that website said specifically "what should we do about this problem?" "well, reduce the number of pit bulls". And how would they do that? obviously KILL THEM which is what BSL aims to do. Big dogs with strong jaws have a stronger bite, it dosnt mean they are going to. It depends on how they have been raised but that website just hops on the bandwagon saying they need to be eradicated, that sounds anti-pitbull/other large breed dogs to me. I think who owns a pit bull should be regulated. Like maybe a dog psychology class and a pit bull liscence for owners? We could use the money that we are going to waste on peace officers and educate people about pit bulls. Not only does my pitbull not bite people like you reiterated, but thousands of others to!

[jenben777]

Originally Posted by AQHA

I have a good education, I'm a life long learner, quite a bit of life experience, I've had two respectable careers; I guess I am a pretty smart guy if spelling doesn't count.
I also had two pitbulls and had a close friend who bred pits. I was a police officer for 8 years and dealt with pits at least every week. I was bit more than once by them, one of those bites was pretty bad.
I have also shot at least three that I can think of, two of these were at the owners request after they bit children.

To be truthful jenben777, my experience in this area is probably a lot more extensive than yours I've known that since your first or second post but I didn't rub your nose in it.



Statements like this do not give you much credibility. Selective breeding my friend, selective breeding. Have you studied a man names Charles Darwin?

Don't feel personally attacked by some of us not agreeing with you, I trust that your dog is a great dog, and that there are many other pits that are great dogs. One of my pits was great and probably fine around anyone, but he did surprise me a time or two.
I finally got rid of both, partly because of the stigma that goes with them, and partly because I didn't want to get my ass sued off if they ever hurt anyone.

Yes I am aware of Darwin and selective breeding. Pits were selectivley bred for their strong physical attributes to fight. However, its the age old nature vs. nurture dilemna. Pits can be nutured by people to be great dogs. If you read articles online, pit bulls are being used more and more in the field of law enforcement. Im not trying to speak for all the pit bulls in the world, I'm just saying that we can't stereo type them and try to eradicate all of them. what im saying is this bill is too harsh, it needs to be greatly refined. I think a lot of people who own pit bulls shouldnt own them. But for the people who have integrated them into their families, this bill is punishment.

[seven of nine]

Originally Posted by rangerider

Here's how it works in my (rural) area.

1) You got a vicious dog, he stays in the yard and you put a sign up. He raises cain and you get a phone call from someone, not a cop; second phone call you're not gonna like. He's gone from the yard he's on his own and likely won't return home. Very likely - not really his fault but kids and stock are more important; that's just the way it is.

2) Good dogs get their run of things, get caught once running stock or acting anything other than friendly they get a ride back to the owner with a friendly word about caring for their safety. Second time out they're fair game; just depends on who they bother.

Now before you brand me as a dog hater, I'm a lifelong border collie person - can't get enough of them. We have two or three of the neighbors dogs over here every once in awhile. None chase my stock or are anything other than friends with my border. I always say hi and give 'em a scratch behind the ear - it's easy to spot a dog that's just making the rounds as oppposed to one who's up to no good. I had a paper route for a long time when I was a kid and learned early about dog manners (or the lack thereof). I'd rather spend a day with a good dog than a lot of people I know.

We ban one thing after another - something goes away and another rises to take it's place. I agree with one of the above posts - personal responsibility is key and so is the power of suggestion. I don't want to see anyone, especially a kid, hurt. That's why in my neck o' the woods the above rules are in place. Pits have a pre-disposition towards a specific behavior; if it's fostered it's not surprising they'd fall back to it. Different owner and homelife, completely different dog.

Remember the 'Marbles' incident...Our Marbles | Big Sky Blog

Good solid logical thinking, something often in short supply.

[Kristynwy]

Thank you to those of you who have kept your posts civil and informative. Most of you have done a pretty good job in this post.

However I have had to delete a couple harsh posts, please refrain from personal attacks when sharing your opinion about this very passionate topic.

If the harsh posts continue to get out of hand I will have to close this thread down...

Thanks again to those of you who have follow the terms of service and contributed to this topic while considering other opinions...