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Self centered obnoxious behaviors are not limited to citizens of a particular state, but does seem to follow a mindset of those raised under very liberal governments such as California and New York.
To say it is a California Attitude is similar to referring to all canned soups being "Campbells" or all copiers being a "Xerox". It is simply a common metaphor to describe an attitude that is readily recognized, no matter where the individual in question is from.
You mention some salient points in your post, I wish to address them in no particular order.
1) You can move wherever you wish to.
The obverse is that the locals have the right to ignore you and your east coast liberal leanings.
When you move next to a rifle range that has been in operation for several years, don't expect anyone to worry about your complaints about noise. If history holds true, you will complain whine and bellyache, the locals will ignore you, you get upset, go to the city council or county commisioners, they will ignore you, you will write a bunch of inflamitory letters to the local paper, you will be alienated in the community, you leave mad that these unenlightened hicks are too stupid to listen to your words of wisdom and enlightenment.
2) you can drive whatever kind of car you wish.
The locals have the right to laugh as they drive right by as you sit in the ditch when you didn't understand how to pull your foot off the accelerator or disconnect your cruise control on ice.
3) You can have your soul stirred all you want.
The land owners have the right to till their fields, manage their forests and earn a living. This state is NOT a national park for the fun and enjoyment of the rich and shameless.
Right now there is another piece of legislation in the fed senate to lock down more land for people like you, to the detriment of the rest of the population.
A few acres of land were opened to wise use, but lots of roads and forest will be shut down to all but the elites.
We live in a place where we can get your "soul stirred" on our way to work, we don't have to lock down all the public ground to enjoy where we live.
4) It is no ones right to tell newcomers how to live or act.
It is also no ones right for anyone to come in and tell the locals how to live or act.
Respect is a two way street. You already state you are liberal, if you come to Montana, you will be surrounded by people who are conservative. That means your point of view won't be as important to anyone else as it is to you so you will soon feel alienated, then the hostitlity sets in, then you are on boards like this telling the world how closed-minded these local hicks are.
5) "carbon copy robots".
No, actually a group of people with common interests, goals and beliefs. Individualism is prized here such as self sufficency, ingenuity, thinking outside the box, but from a foundation of basic beliefs founded in traditions such as community spirit, definite knowledge of right and wrong, Helping your neighbor, not stealing from them to give to someone who refuses to work.
There is a strong sense of community here. You would probably see it as an "Us against them" attitude, but it more a deep caring and respect for your neighbors, and a dislike of those who would impose phoney barriers to create factions in the community.
We respect hard work, and expect it of others. If you have a family it is your responsibility to provide for them, not everybody elses while you sit on your butt and watch sportcenter.
We teach our children respect for themselves and others so when kids come into a community with no disipline or respect for anyone, the parents are held to blame for not demanding the basics of common courtisy and teaching their children there are consaquenses for their actions.
A respect for others so, as an example, if all your neighbors hunt and you don't, don't try to outlaw hunting.
They won't try to convert you, but you will probably be invited to go hunting or offered a steak unless you preach about the "Evils" of hunting and try to convert your neighbors.
Live and let live. If it doesn't hurt you or your family, and it is legal, let it alone.
A common belief system of respect and work and traditions of family and state, those are common, not "carbon copy", but shared as part of a community and state.
Missoula is our most liberal city, and there are plenty of trust fund babies there, but Missoula is far more conservative than places like Seattle or San Fransiko.
Moving into an area you know beforehand has different values is tatamount to declaring war.
If you wish to move someplace besides New York, please be my guest. I wouldn't wish for my worst enemy to have to live there. (Yes, I have visited New York, not impressed), but as you said, there are 50 states to choose from.
Colorado, or New Mexico have much of what Montana has and are far more liberal. I hear land is pretty cheap in the liberal paradise of Michigan right now. Minnesota is so liberal they allowed Al Franken to go to the senate. That is a very lovely state with a population you would probablyfit right into. I would reccomend checking them out instead of coming here with the already evidenced chip on your shoulder that you have.
It wouldn't be a pleasant experience for you, or for the citizens who have to put up with you until you leave in disgust at all the uncivilized red necks who live here.
Save yourself and us the headaches, go somewhere you will fit in, I hear upper New York State is nice....
Last edited by MTSilvertip; 10-10-2009 at 11:07 AM..
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,121,934 times
Reputation: 5025
The following quoted response by MTSilvertip could not be phrased any better. It is 100%+ correct!
Just a couple of my personal obversations regarding the ultimate effect that liberal out-of-staters have on a given (city/county) after they begin to fill vacancies on City Councils; Planning Commissions; Zoning Boards; County Commissions etc, etc.
BOULDER, CO/ BOULDER COUNTY: 1965 to >>present..................
I lived 3 miles up in the foot hills (bought a 'bank foreclosure home') for almost 16 years ('65 to'80) and saw a wonderful "city/county area" change from desireable in all respects to totally un-desireable. The main source of these: "new era"; "progressive"; "liberal leaning" changes in ordinancies, regulations etc etc, came from the minds and voices of the 6000+ employees of IBM that were moved into the area (from 1965 to approx 1975)from........yea, guess where.............Endicott, NY, and San Jose, CA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, Mr "gottagetoutahere", don't try and tell me about the beneficial effects & efforts of people who want to change things, so that they mirror where they came from, when they move to places like Colorado and Montana.
Read the Boulder forum and get opinions from people who lived there in the 1960's..................HEY..........Come to think of it......Check out Boulder, You'd fit right in!!!!!!!!!
I now have lived here in Ravalli County, MT for almost 31 years........and see the same "pattern of events" occuring here..........just 30 years after it occurred in Boulder County, CO.
OK folks, sorry to be so 'direct' to the poster from NY, but being in the 2nd half of my eighth decade, I feel my 40 yrs of working in the steel industry; my "real life experiences" and conclusions drawn therefrom, quite possibly exceed those of the NY poster who most likely has never lived in an "un-spoiled Montana type" enviroment!.
CARPE DIEM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip
GottaGetoutahere,
Self centered obnoxious behaviors are not limited to citizens of a particular state, but does seem to follow a mindset of those raised under very liberal governments such as California and New York.
To say it is a California Attitude is similar to referring to all canned soups being "Campbells" or all copiers being a "Xerox". It is simply a common metaphor to describe an attitude that is readily recognized, no matter where the individual in question is from.
You mention some salient points in your post, I wish to address them in no particular order.
1) You can move wherever you wish to.
The obverse is that the locals have the right to ignore you and your east coast liberal leanings.
When you move next to a rifle range that has been in operation for several years, don't expect anyone to worry about your complaints about noise. If history holds true, you will complain whine and bellyache, the locals will ignore you, you get upset, go to the city council or county commisioners, they will ignore you, you will write a bunch of inflamitory letters to the local paper, you will be alienated in the community, you leave mad that these unenlightened hicks are too stupid to listen to your words of wisdom and enlightenment.
2) you can drive whatever kind of car you wish.
The locals have the right to laugh as they drive right by as you sit in the ditch when you didn't understand how to pull your foot off the accelerator or disconnect your cruise control on ice.
3) You can have your soul stirred all you want.
The land owners have the right to till their fields, manage their forests and earn a living. This state is NOT a national park for the fun and enjoyment of the rich and shameless.
Right now there is another piece of legislation in the fed senate to lock down more land for people like you, to the detriment of the rest of the population.
A few acres of land were opened to wise use, but lots of roads and forest will be shut down to all but the elites.
We live in a place where we can get your "soul stirred" on our way to work, we don't have to lock down all the public ground to enjoy where we live.
4) It is no ones right to tell newcomers how to live or act.
It is also no ones right for anyone to come in and tell the locals how to live or act.
Respect is a two way street. You already state you are liberal, if you come to Montana, you will be surrounded by people who are conservative. That means your point of view won't be as important to anyone else as it is to you so you will soon feel alienated, then the hostitlity sets in, then you are on boards like this telling the world how closed-minded these local hicks are.
Missoula is our most liberal city, and there are plenty of trust fund babies there, but Missoula is far more conservative than places like Seattle or San Fransiko.
Moving into an area you know beforehand has different values is tatamount to declaring war.
If you wish to move someplace besides New York, please be my guest. I wouldn't wish for my worst enemy to have to live there. (Yes, I have visited New York, not impressed), but as you said, there are 50 states to choose from.
Colorado, or New Mexico have much of what Montana has and are far more liberal. I hear land is pretty cheap in the liberal paradise of Michigan right now. Minnesota is so liberal they allowed Al Franken to go to the senate. That is a very lovely state with a population you would probablyfit right into. I would reccomend checking them out instead of coming here with the already evidenced chip on your shoulder that you have.
It wouldn't be a pleasant experience for you, or for the citizens who have to put up with you until you leave in disgust at all the uncivilized red necks who live here.
Save yourself and us the headaches, go somewhere you will fit in, I hear upper New York State is nice....
I hear you dude. For ten years I've been searching for my "perfect spot." I'm native to California and no longer welcome here as I don't speak Spanish and I'm far too Conservative (NRA life member among other sins.)
I'm not welcome in Montana either. My last trip there, I wasn't in the state for more than five minutes before someone "saluted" as they passed and then cut me off. I was driving a 4X4 diesel PU, pulling a trailer, up a mountain grade. But alas, both had California plates.
That's not the only example. People will mention their dislike for Californians or complain about this or that problem "caused" by Californians right in front of you. For the purpose of registering their contempt, you, my east coast friend are a Californian. Everyone not from Montana falls under the "California" heading. However, If you care to correct them, they will be most happy to swap out the state and amplify their complaint as if wherever you are from is actually much worse than California. This, interestingly is generally not done by an old time Montanan but more usually by an earlier import. The old timers will just walk away, silently shouting their disgust.
I've been all over the west for 46 years. The folks in most western states dislike Californians and East coasters. Montanans HATE them. It is the least tolerant western state to "outsiders." Now, could you move there and be ok? Sure. I know many who have. But, you'll have to work hard to blend in and hide the fact that you're a New Yorker. Meaning, you gotta look the part and drop the rhetoric. What's the penalty for not? Nothing life threatening. Nobody's gonna shoot you (probably.) You'll draw some ridicule and you'll find it harder to get a job.
I decided against it and chose a location where the natives are less vocal about their dislike of outsiders. After all, I've been lookin for a place to enjoy life. For me, that does not include always having to put up a front to hide my origins. Like I probably shouldn't refer to everyone as "dude." I'll work on that, you work on that liberalism problem.
Self centered obnoxious behaviors are not limited to citizens of a particular state, but does seem to follow a mindset of those raised under very liberal governments such as California and New York.
To say it is a California Attitude is similar to referring to all canned soups being "Campbells" or all copiers being a "Xerox". It is simply a common metaphor to describe an attitude that is readily recognized, no matter where the individual in question is from.
You mention some salient points in your post, I wish to address them in no particular order.
1) You can move wherever you wish to.
The obverse is that the locals have the right to ignore you and your east coast liberal leanings.
When you move next to a rifle range that has been in operation for several years, don't expect anyone to worry about your complaints about noise. If history holds true, you will complain whine and bellyache, the locals will ignore you, you get upset, go to the city council or county commisioners, they will ignore you, you will write a bunch of inflamitory letters to the local paper, you will be alienated in the community, you leave mad that these unenlightened hicks are too stupid to listen to your words of wisdom and enlightenment.
2) you can drive whatever kind of car you wish.
The locals have the right to laugh as they drive right by as you sit in the ditch when you didn't understand how to pull your foot off the accelerator or disconnect your cruise control on ice.
3) You can have your soul stirred all you want.
The land owners have the right to till their fields, manage their forests and earn a living. This state is NOT a national park for the fun and enjoyment of the rich and shameless.
Right now there is another piece of legislation in the fed senate to lock down more land for people like you, to the detriment of the rest of the population.
A few acres of land were opened to wise use, but lots of roads and forest will be shut down to all but the elites.
We live in a place where we can get your "soul stirred" on our way to work, we don't have to lock down all the public ground to enjoy where we live.
4) It is no ones right to tell newcomers how to live or act.
It is also no ones right for anyone to come in and tell the locals how to live or act.
Respect is a two way street. You already state you are liberal, if you come to Montana, you will be surrounded by people who are conservative. That means your point of view won't be as important to anyone else as it is to you so you will soon feel alienated, then the hostitlity sets in, then you are on boards like this telling the world how closed-minded these local hicks are.
5) "carbon copy robots".
No, actually a group of people with common interests, goals and beliefs. Individualism is prized here such as self sufficency, ingenuity, thinking outside the box, but from a foundation of basic beliefs founded in traditions such as community spirit, definite knowledge of right and wrong, Helping your neighbor, not stealing from them to give to someone who refuses to work.
There is a strong sense of community here. You would probably see it as an "Us against them" attitude, but it more a deep caring and respect for your neighbors, and a dislike of those who would impose phoney barriers to create factions in the community.
We respect hard work, and expect it of others. If you have a family it is your responsibility to provide for them, not everybody elses while you sit on your butt and watch sportcenter.
We teach our children respect for themselves and others so when kids come into a community with no disipline or respect for anyone, the parents are held to blame for not demanding the basics of common courtisy and teaching their children there are consaquenses for their actions.
A respect for others so, as an example, if all your neighbors hunt and you don't, don't try to outlaw hunting.
They won't try to convert you, but you will probably be invited to go hunting or offered a steak unless you preach about the "Evils" of hunting and try to convert your neighbors.
Live and let live. If it doesn't hurt you or your family, and it is legal, let it alone.
A common belief system of respect and work and traditions of family and state, those are common, not "carbon copy", but shared as part of a community and state.
Missoula is our most liberal city, and there are plenty of trust fund babies there, but Missoula is far more conservative than places like Seattle or San Fransiko.
Moving into an area you know beforehand has different values is tatamount to declaring war.
If you wish to move someplace besides New York, please be my guest. I wouldn't wish for my worst enemy to have to live there. (Yes, I have visited New York, not impressed), but as you said, there are 50 states to choose from.
Colorado, or New Mexico have much of what Montana has and are far more liberal. I hear land is pretty cheap in the liberal paradise of Michigan right now. Minnesota is so liberal they allowed Al Franken to go to the senate. That is a very lovely state with a population you would probablyfit right into. I would reccomend checking them out instead of coming here with the already evidenced chip on your shoulder that you have.
It wouldn't be a pleasant experience for you, or for the citizens who have to put up with you until you leave in disgust at all the uncivilized red necks who live here.
Save yourself and us the headaches, go somewhere you will fit in, I hear upper New York State is nice....
Wow. What a rude and hateful post, full of stereotypes and IGNORANCE! No where in my post did I EVER bash Montanans, and yet, you are bashing ME! For what? For being a liberal???
Seems that it is YOU with the chip on your shoulder!
As for living in other "more liberal" States, I'll live WHEREVER I WANT, and I DON'T need your permission to move to Montana, if the case may be. I should hope your obnoxious attitudes and comments are not representative of the whole State of Montana 'cause if so, may God help you!
Pulling a 36,500 trailer ten days ago from Atlanta to home (MT) I was greeted by several single digit salutes exiting the "coops" because I wasn't up to speed. As I caught up passed them, I smiled and waved - and got stares back when they spotted my NRA decals on the truck and trailer. Those ignorant imbeciles had plates from FL, TN, IL and MO.
On arrival home, having sent my Son and his family ahead on the airplane, I noticed my neighbor had run off the road into the barrow ditch. Blocking my access to the road, I calmly told him to vacate the vehicle and that I'd get it out for him. He proceeded to exacerbate the situation by verbally assaulting me for driving such a large truck. I said I didn't know I couldn't drive my commercial truck on "my road" - since I built it in 2000! Then I saw the IL plate. So I left my truck, got the Bobcat and pulled him out - and got my rig up the drive and unloaded. His wife - came over the next morning with a fresh made struedel. Nice people now.
We don't care where you come from - just show a little bit of kindness like your Mom taught you when you were children.
To GottaGetOuttaHere: as you can see, there are a lot of parochial bigots here. Montana would be better without them, but that is taking time. Hopefully,Darwin will eventually take care of the problem. Really, there are many open minded, accepting people here, and welcome fresh ideas and new people of all types. Try Billings; it has a reputation for being a conservative city, but it's truly pretty middle of the road by our standards; it is large enough that there are many liberal, progressive people and attitudes here. A liberal arts college, a branch of the University system, lots of great restaurants, arts, entertainment, medical facilities, stores, and is well served (for Montana) for transportation. It's not in the Mountains or as scenic as western Montana in my opinion (although some pepole love the wide open range and nearby mountains even more), but they are nearby--Red Lodge, Absarokee, the Beartooths (highest point in Montana) and other types of recreation.
Hello everyone, I am new to this site. My husband and I bought 40 acres just outside of Glasgow and are building a house. I hope that next year when we move we are welcomed. My husband is a hunter and also likes to fish. We also raise Labrador's. Nice to meet all of you. Nancy
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,121,934 times
Reputation: 5025
Quote:
Originally Posted by NancyB2009
Hello everyone, I am new to this site. My husband and I bought 40 acres just outside of Glasgow and are building a house. I hope that next year when we move we are welcomed. My husband is a hunter and also likes to fish. We also raise Labrador's. Nice to meet all of you. Nancy
Nancy........
A sincere welcome to you.
A hunter and fisherman and a couple that raises Labs.......what more could a Montana resident ask for in a neighbor. It appears that you will fit right in.
If your husband ever needs a qualified, honest gunsmith....just let me know. I have used one that is located right there in Glasgow.
Also, I'm sure your husband already knows that the N/E corner of the state provides the best pheasant hunting.
Good luck to you.
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