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Old 03-23-2014, 09:15 AM
 
Location: C-U metro
1,366 posts, read 2,736,754 times
Reputation: 1163

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Being a native Montanan, I knew I would have to leave the state when:
1) I never dated in high school. I've found this to be a key metric within my HS class and my brother's HS if they married someone from Montana. If you dated, you could get dates with other Montana women. If not, you might as well be dead. Even if they think you are attractive, something must be wrong with you because you haven't dated anyone.
2) I graduated from MSU with an engineering degree. Out of 50+ chemical engineering grads in my class, only 2 are still in state and they teach or work at MSU.
3) When I could no longer tollerate people who want to make Montana a park for rich people. They routinely oppose any and all development unless it is residential housing or a strip mall. The open space program in Bozeman is little more than a taxpayer funded holding facility for developers. They can't afford to develop all the land they have so they put it in "Open Space" and then trade it back out for undevelopable swamp land or land they will develop in the future.

I agree that dating women in Montana and the Dakotas is a lot tougher than it needs to be. It is a supply/demand issue and it quickly dawns on women that they can treat men like dirt because there's always another one around the corner and he won't care, for a while, how he is treated. He's just happy to kiss a girl that he's not related to. My stepsister in college kept boys around just so she could get free dinners out of it. She wasn't interested in them romanticly at all.

In some small towns, you don't lose your wife, you just lose your turn.
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Old 03-23-2014, 10:12 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,545 posts, read 12,622,658 times
Reputation: 2958
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingcat2k View Post
2) I graduated from MSU with an engineering degree. Out of 50+ chemical engineering grads in my class, only 2 are still in state and they teach or work at MSU.
3) When I could no longer tollerate people who want to make Montana a park for rich people. They routinely oppose any and all development unless it is residential housing or a strip mall.
Those are related problems, or perhaps actually the SAME problem.

We have the resources HERE to have the kind of industry that makes good, sustained jobs for our own university graduates (who in turn create jobs for average folks by designing refineries and such). But we're shipping our coal to China and letting new transplants tell us that we can no longer have those stinky stockyards and rendering plants and refineries, and we're being told that 'tourism' will save the day.

Well, here's a hint, folks -- tourism is a service industry. Service industries make for a lot of part-time minimum wage jobs, but nothing more (except for the few in management). And tourism is particularly vulnerable to economic downturns, because it depends on OTHER people's disposable income. When other people's income dips, tourism DIES. Major resorts will still do all right because they're household names all over the world, but we can't all live on the tourist income from Glacier and Yellowstone.

You can't live on 'intellectual' industry either, because you can only sell an idea ONCE. Companies in China and India and Pakistan don't give a damn about your copyrights or trade secrets, and they can always undercut your costs. They'll take your idea and turn it into their profit.

A sound economy produces hard goods and consumables, like food and fuel and other tangible products that everyone needs every day. It doesn't produce nothing but ideas that anyone can co-opt, or waiting tables for someone who will always be better off than you.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:09 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,291,142 times
Reputation: 1037
I am seriously dying laughing at some of the posts and responses here. Especially the ones from folks who move here from other states and do nothing but gripe and complain about the people, culture, economy and roads. You moved here, if you don't like it, try option B which is leave. I am not an unfriendly person, in fact, I am usually the first one to welcome newcomers but I love Montana and if you are going to come here wanting to change it or just sit and complain, remedy the unpleasant situation. That being said....three problems with Montana imo.

1) Hobby farmers/ranchers. You simply cannot have a horse/cattle/wheat/hay farm or ranch on 10 or 20 acres. In fact, anything less than fifty acres is considered a yard, field or pasture. Five horses or twenty cows does not mean you are "in the horse and cattle business". Twenty horses and 500 cattle mean you're a little serious about the industry.

2) Out of state hunters who have no respect for residents. We welcome the boost to the economy that out of state hunters brings to small towns but have some respect and courtesy for the residents who will be hunting here long after you and your big money have left.

3) Wanna be "I'm a cowgirl/cowboy" attitude. Just because you moved to Montana and bought some Wranglers and boots does not make you a cowboy/girl. Fine if you just like wearing them but to try and act the part makes you look like an idiot. Meanwhile, those of us who grew up on a "real" ranch, went to school with manure on our boots or even rode our horse to school, missed semester tests because of calving, missed start of school for harvest, missed school for opening day of hunting season are laughing our arsses off.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:25 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,291,142 times
Reputation: 1037
Quote:
Originally Posted by charreneemt View Post
Top three "bad" things about Montana.

1. Mean, hateful people. I have lived here for eight years, I came from New Mexico, ( no I don't wear a sombrero and I'm white.) I have traveled all over the world and I have never experienced such a unfriendly place as Montana.

Coming from the south, I am used to being in a place where people talk to each other or smile at one another when you pass each other on the street. Here if you order something at a drive in window, you are the one to say thank you and they just stuff your food and you and don't say a thing.

People here are extremely clanish, if they think you are not a "Native" they completely alienate you. People always act as if you are trying to infringe upon their " Montananess" I am sure I will get a lot of replies of offended "Montanan's" I have never been in such a state except maybe Texas where people hold them self so highly in comparision to other states.

People are always taken aback when I bring this up here, but I have been all over the world, I am a world traveler and I compare everywhere I go to where I live, how strangers are treated and Montana by far, except for maybe Las Vegas or New York, has the meanest people around.

Don't believe me, next time you go to buy something at a drive in window, do my test, be as nice as pie and see the response you will get.

The only nice people that I meet here, are normally transplants from other states, "native" Montanan's are a bunch of redneck backwards closed minded rude freaks. Don't even get me started on Butte, and the Mutants living there.
If you are having difficulty finding friends, that's a personal issue. Lose the attitude and go out and meet folks. You moved here, you put forth some effort.

2. Lack of industry and resistance to new opportunities. With Helena specifically, I always get excited when I see a new building going up, excited to acutally be getting some businesses that the rest of the world has only to be dissapointed that its yet another bank or auto parts store. Missoula and Bozeman are leaps ahead the Capitol City.


3.Lack of culture, lack of things for young people to do. I grew up in Albuquerque, a very cultured city. So coming to Montana was of course a shock. My husband and I are a young professional couple. There is nothing here to go for young people whatsoever. Before I got married and I was here alone, the only thing for a young person to do was go to a bar, and most of the girls I knew ended up going home with some random guy. Woman are treated like a peice of meat here, if you guys could put a tag on us, you would do that ( I met my husband outside of Montana) Getting drunk or doing drugs, having fliverous sex, or gambeling at the casinos, that pretty much sums up the entertainment options in Montana. You can only go to so many movies before you lose your mind.

People always think that small towns are good for children, I believe quite the opposite. Here, what do teenagers have to do? There are no programs or positive places for them to hang out. So what do they do? They drink, they do meth, that have babies at 16. There is a feeling of hopelessness in the youth here that is so, so sad. I know, because that is my line of work. There is nothing for them to do, they are bored out of their freaking minds, along with the 20 somethings as well!
I live in a small town more than an hour away from your beloved culture. The kids here do not need instructions on how to have good clean fun. It's called fishing, hunting, volunteering, community service, skipping rocks, camping, hiking, horseback riding, rodeo, swimming in the river or creek, mudding in their trucks, campfires, "snipe" hunting, reading, church and family. Oh yes my personal favorite for teens, GO GET A JOB!

Oh yeah and lack of good places to eat but that falls under resistance to industry, in my previous paragraph.


The "good" things that keep me here...the beautiful landscape, the animals, I love the deer that you all treat like cockroaches( don't even get me started on hunting season omg, (for a animal lover this place is a nightmare come hunting season), the wildlife, the safety, the small commute times. So don't tell me to go back where I came from ( you love that line) , I have my reasons for staying around you inhospitable bunch.
Okay, now you pushed my buttons. You moved to the WRONG state! I will tell you what I tell anyone else that moves here from another state and bashes our way of life. Don't like it leave. If your reasons for being here are so great then I suggest you conform. Your attitude is the reason folks are inhospitable to you. You complain about kids having nothing to do and yet bash the most beloved pastime in our state? I take my granddaughters who are four and under out hunting with me and they love it. These girls will grow up having something to do other than drinking and drugs. I love deer too, more than you obviously. If you love them so much, learn about healthy population balance.



Ok so now I know the natives will be chomping at the bit because I've insulted their "Montananess" so bring it on!!

I highly suggest you don't move here from another state, proceed to bash Montanans and our way of life then challenge us when you **** us off. Not a smart thing to do.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,545 posts, read 12,622,658 times
Reputation: 2958
Quote:
Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
That being said....three problems with Montana imo.

1) Hobby farmers/ranchers.
2) Out of state hunters who have no respect for residents.
3) Wanna be "I'm a cowgirl/cowboy" attitude.
None of which are problems with Montana.

I have found you can pretty much tell the hobbyists, tho, from one glance at their place -- they're the ones with 10 horses (most of which do absolutely nothing but eat) and 10 acres grazed down to bare dirt, and who then complain about the price of hay.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:43 AM
 
30 posts, read 39,123 times
Reputation: 10
We have non resident hunters. They hunt hard and they walk. The non res pay a lot to hunt and want to make the most of it.
You can always tell a resident hunter, they drive and always a 4 wheeler in the pickup.
We are to the point that, A muddy pickup with a 4 wheeler in back will not hunt our place.
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Old 03-27-2014, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,545 posts, read 12,622,658 times
Reputation: 2958
Quote:
Originally Posted by SageCreek View Post
You can always tell a resident hunter, they drive and always a 4 wheeler in the pickup.
And how many of those are transplants?

I look at my neighbor as case in point. He's from That Other State. Came here so he could do whatever he wants. Which includes being a rude hunter. He's technically a MT resident, but he ain't a Montanan.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:17 AM
Status: "Hey I thought this was the train to Margaritaville?" (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
11,880 posts, read 15,540,649 times
Reputation: 12177
I don't recall if I posted in this thread or not, but I will say that being 'an outsider' from West Virginia has meant about squat to me. I seem to
be able to spark up friendly conversation anywhere I go in the state, I have not been 'chastised' for not being a native- I just can't connect with some people feeling differently.

I can, however, detail one thing that I think is Montana's biggest problem- the lax attitude towards DUI/drinking related offenses. In my opinion it borders on an epidemic scale. Living in North Valley Helena I can't count how many accidents that have occurred on Lincoln Rd alone. Multiple offenders get off with a slap on the wrist while the rest of us are put in harms way.

It's insane that we foster this type of behavior and continue to allow people to drive or not serve some time behind bars.

Don't get me wrong I love beer, and I enjoy going to a tap room for a craft beer or sit around the BBQ and knock down a few cold ones, but I'll be damned if I think getting hammered and getting behind the wheel is no big deal.

The drinking culture here needs to be meted with some serious penalties for driving while under the influence. Frankly I am worried that my son or daughter might get slaughtered on the road because if the drunk crazies around here. I don't even drive after 10pm on Friday or Saturday nights- I've been run off the road and almost hit head on more than once on Lincoln Rd.
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Old 03-27-2014, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
4,928 posts, read 5,818,910 times
Reputation: 8345
Got to agree with Magoo and Rez on this one.
Slob hunters of any origin aren't welcome and do a lot of damage to the image of hunters, and many do come from other states.

I have friends from other states that come in and hunt, they are exemplary hunters, but I always hunt with them as some need a local to tell them, "we don't do that here".

Most of the Montana Hunters that are from here are very familier with being courtious and working with the landowner.

They hybrids or transplants are normally the ones that decide that since they honored our state by moving here and allowing us to bask in their glory can do whaever the hell they please.

Not all transplants are bad, Threerun for example is exactly the kind of transplant we would and should ALL welcome!!

On our property, no 4 wheelers are allowed, period. We will retrieve game for the hunter with our horses, or if there is an established road close by they can drive in close.

The only exception to the 4 wheeler rule is for guys that are handicapped and can't walk, but no baja-ing is allowed either and usually either my father, brother or myself will be with them to assure they don't get into a situation they can't get out of.

Aside from having our forests and mines closed by out of state interests, our farmland and ranches paved over for subdevelopments for housing for out of staters, the limited job opportunities from folks moving in to take the best positions, there aren't a lot of really bad things about this state.

Unless of course you prefer overregulation, higher taxes, long faceless strip malls, clubs of drunken youths with loud synthesized "music", more pavement, traffic jams, long commutes to work, less individual freedom, if you prefer metal detectors on schools and limits on the second amendment, or if you hate hunting and fishing and an appreication for the outdoors, well then Montana isn't the place for you at all and would be a tough place to live.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:43 PM
 
30 posts, read 39,123 times
Reputation: 10
I have at this point not asked "what generation MT you are"? (those that ask to trespass)
For sure, don't mean to lump all MT residents together.
I sure enough have stories.
Remember the Fall of 2012? all the rain. 4 wheelers did more damage then you can imagine. They left, we need to try to repair the damage. Now the gates are locked.

MT residents for sure, WILL do whatever they can! So they DO NOT have to carry out their deer or antelope, elk or whatever on their backs.
I've seen cases, LOTS! where a Non Res will bone and back a deer 1-2 miles even more!!!.
Those folks are welcome anytime.
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