Soldier and Army Brat Moving to Montana? (Missoula, Great Falls: for sale, crime rate)

[gkjake]

Hey all,

I have read through many of the posts on this forum and am just looking for some advice. I am an officer in the Army and am happily married with two girls age 12 and 9. We currently live in Colorado Springs and I am in Iraq for my second year long tour over here. Needless to say I am sick of deploying and being away from my family for a year at a time so I am looking for a place to settle down. I am considering applying for the job as the Senior Army advisor to the National Guard there in Helena Montana for a three year tour. I would hope during that time to find a job that would allow me to get out of the Army and finally stay in one place and finish raising my girls. We love Colorado Springs but in my mind it is just getting a little too crowded the thougth of moving to one of the few remaining frontiers in America thrills us. My wife and I are both Army Brats (our fathers were in the Army) and have moved locations every 2-3 years our entire lives. We long to belong to a community somewhere and put down some roots and we think montana might be the place. From all my research Helena seems to have about the same weather conditions as Colorado Springs and that is great for us--we love to experience all four seasons.
Anyway--long story short, I guess I'm looking for comments and advice about moving there. This would be a risk for me as I would essentially be ending my Army career most likely (retiring at 20 years) and counting on finding a job there locally at the end of those three years. My family loves the outdoors and hiking, fishing, hunting and skiing together. Scary for us but I want to live life and stop putting off my/our dream until we are too old to enjoy it and my children are grown and gone. What do you all think?

Greg

[seven of nine]

First up. Thank you for your service, thank your family for their sacrifice. You are the best of the best.

Not alot of posters here on the Montana forum so be patient, someone will wander by. Montana is huge with many types of climates, cultures, cost. I being on the other side of the state can only advise you to follow that dream. You are used to adapting as is your family. Keep looking, this might be what you are looking for, Helena is a very pretty town, way small. Hope someone will pick up your post.
I will let them know on the porch that you are looking. Best of Luck!

[MTSilvertip]

GKJake,
I too wish to thank you for your service. I did my time over playing with unsavory types and really sympathize with your desire to actually see your family from time to time.

You don't mention what kind of civilian job you are looking for. Helena is the capitol, so all the state agencies are here, and most of the federal ones as well.

There is very little in the way of manufacturing, the timber and mining industries are pretty much gone.
Lots of service jobs, hotel cleaning, waiting tables and cooks, delivering newspapers, mowing lawns, that sort of thing.

Some professional jobs, office manager, accounting, case workers, sales, you need to be a little more specific before we can give you too much.

There are lots of houses for sale, some are actually coming down in price, there are 4 lakes, (3 are reservoirs) nearby, forest service comes right down to the edge of town. There is a ski hill at Marysville, and I think there is one over at Butte too, I know there is one at Bozeman.

Hunting isn't too bad as long as you are willing to get a ways away from Helena proper, Boulder and Townsend have good populations of several types of big game and birds. Most of the game near Helena is the deer within city limits.

Helena is in a rain shadow from the mountains so is pretty dry, but doesn't get the snow and ice many other areas get. It can get warm in the summer, but with very little humidity, doesn't feel as bad as it could. It can get cold too, but again, being so dry it isn't as bad as you might think.

There are a million things to do if you are willing to drive a little. Shopping in Great Falls, Bozeman or Butte, they are all 90 miles away in different directions. Boating, Fishing, Hiking, Camping, Hunting, museums, The State Historical Society in Helena, Museum of the Rockies in Bozeman, (very big on dinosaurs), and the Charles M Russell in Great Falls, ghost towns, Lewis and Clark caverns for a little caveing, Float the Missouri, canoe or kayak, there are shooting ranges at McDonald pass and a new sporting clays range at Townsend, and a trap range in the valley north of Helena. Wildlife alongside the roads, Yellowstone park to the south and Glacier to the north.
There is a decent trade school, the College of Technology, and the Catholic college, Carroll. Montana State University in Bozeman and the University of Montana in Missoula so your kids can go to post secondary if they wish. The VA hospital is at Fort Harrison so good health care is available to veterans.

You can drive just a few miles in pretty much any direction and be removed from people for a little peace and quiet.

It can be a great place, but it is what you make of it. Helena is far more liberal than most towns in Montana, But that is still far more conservative than most places on the left coast for example. Montana has a larger percentage of veterans per capita than any other state, so you will be among friends.

I would say recon the area first, but if you decide to come, this old Squid would be the first to say "Welcome Aboard Doggie"

[gkjake]

Thanks to both of you for the advice, info and well wishes. I wasn't tracking on the large number of veterans in Montana--that is great news for I love soldiers and veterans and understand their/our common values--not hard to figure as I am born and bred Army.

As for the type of job I am looking for I am a career Army Armor/Cavalry Officer, graduated West Point with a Bachelors in Mechanical ENG in 1992, and have a Masters in Advanced Military Studies from Leavenworth and a MA in Computer Resources and Information Management from Webster's. Really I could see myself doing about anything. My father tells me the hard part is getting your foot in the door (based on his retirement and subsequent job search in Washington State). I saw one job listing for a Trails Grant Coordinator that looked interesting. I will have at least three years from the time I get on the ground there to look for a job so I am not overly stressed about it as the Army does give me one last move and I could move anywhere if I didn't find a job in and around Helena I guess. My wife is a little worried about the Bears but I told her that she had a better chance of getting run over crossing the street--lol. She loves to hike, fish, and camp with the girls and me.

Maybe if we really like this place I can convince the rest of my family to move up and join us as we are spread all over from RI(brother) to DC(other brother) and Florida(mom and dad) right now. I ramble.

thanks again for all the help

greg

[MTSilvertip]

In three years the situation could be completely different. With your credentials I don't think finding a state/federal job should be too difficult.

Helena exists in a bubble. With taxes coming in from the rest of the state being the primary source of industry, Helena is insulated from the economic vageries of most of the rest of the state. It isn't as pretty as Bozeman or the Flathead, so not as much development. The housing costs are stupid high, but coming down some. That is pretty much the same as the rest of the state too. But we don't have a sales tax, you can buy a lifetime license for your car or truck, and the crime rate is really low compared to most places.

If you want to make at least $12.00/hr, State/Fed are your best bet. Most civilians work 2 jobs or more just to keep going.

It is a good place to live, and if you don't mind driving a little there are a lot of things to do and see. ( I would advise a four wheel drive as even the highways get slick in the winter and in Helena it is built on the side of a mountain so the slides through stop signs and stop lights can really get your blood pumping).
For the females, shopping is pretty limited and that seems to be one of the biggest gripes I hear from them. Doesn't bother me too bad as I don't do a lot of shopping.

There is an aerospace machining company over by the airport, Summit Engineering, that might be something to look at. The National Guard hires a lot of civilians for support purposes, that may be another option.

Getting a family to agree on ANYTHING could be your greatest challenge if you want them all to move here. My family has been in the state since the 1860's, and many have left because there are limited opportunities for good jobs.

I myself spent my years in the Navy checking out the living conditions all across America and the world. I won't get rich in Montana, BUT I will have a life I can feel good about and a place I am Proud to call home.

[GEORGIAINMT]

I just want to comment that this is a very good thread! It's nice reading such positive comments You guys have given Greg some great ideas and things to think about concerning Helena & Montana. My opinion, FWIW, is that you have done a great job describing things. Keep up the good work with the positive posts. You guys rock!

[gkjake]

Great Info. Good thing my wife is not a big shopper! One thing I found interesting is your comment on Helena not being as pretty as Bozeman or Flathead. Is that the natural vistas or the town itself?

[seven of nine]

Bozeman Pictures : Photographs of Bozeman, Montana

Helena, Montana : Pictures of Helena, MT

Here are a couple of site to look at. One thing I found in Moving to Montana and during my three year search prior was that there is not alot of the realtor "spin" on things. Yes you do have an occasional snake oil salesman but folks are pretty much "this is how it is". There is recreation around Helena and you might consider the job opportunities to be number one on your list for that city. Good luck and let us here how it is going.
BTW do you hunt? If so you are in paradise

[gkjake]

I will check out the sites 7of9 -- thanks. As for the hunting--a resounding YES. I am primarily a wingshooter and love to duck and bird hunt--turkey as well. Never had time or the real inclination to pursue big game much though I have deer hunted. It is killing me being over here right now as my oldest girl passed her hunter's Education course and I have been teaching her to hunt-also just got a new female yellow Lab that I spent her entire first year training only to deploy to Iraq right before her 2nd duck season. Man can she hunt. At five months old she made her duck hunting debut--on that day last year she made about 6 different retrieves on a lake for me with 4 of those being out past 50 meters! It was 19 degrees and cold windy and crappy out--perfect duck weather. Man, brings tears to my eyes thinking of how much that dog loves to hunt and what a perfect morning that was--I thanked god for sending ducks my way that morning so I could exercise my pup. She is only 55 lbs now at 1.5 years old and at 5 months those ducks were almost bigger than her. My daughter hasn't hit a bird out of the air yet but she loves going and is sure to soon. She is turning into an excellent fly fisher though and my youngest isn't far behind. Can't get my wife off of the spinning real to try fly fishing but she usually kicks my butt in total fish count.

[MTSilvertip]

In my post referencing "beauty", Helena is much dryer that Bozeman or Kalispell, so most of the year it is brown not green.
There isn't the verdunt growth you will see west of the divide.

There are great views of the mountains, you can look across the valley and see Lake Helena, (good place for waterfowl hunting), and the causeway, (part of Hauser lake, good fising).

In an earlier post you referenced your wife's concern about bears.
Yes there are bears here. Mostly blacks, but you can run into grizzly once in a while.

Normally they don't bother you, but be careful in the spring when the cubs are young and the sows are super protective, and fall when the bears are trying to bulk up for winter hibernation and are at their most active.

If you pay attention to your surroundings and make a little noise when you hike, you should have no problem.
If you are camping, do your cooking some distance from your tent, hang your food at least 10 feet off the ground and 10 feet from the tree trunk, and don't camp near streams as bears patrol the creek banks looking for food.

Use your head and pay attention, you will probably never have a problem.

You will like the fact that Montana has 2 waterfowl flyways, (central and Pacific), each with different regulations and limits, but you can hunt them both. Wait until you see Freezout Lake! Millions of birds.

Montana has 10 big game species, (11 when the wolf licenses become legal again), so there is a huge variety of animals to chase.

I think you will like it.