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Old 05-13-2009, 08:22 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
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tijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud oftijlover has much to be proud of
More travelers should be aware of this site. When you escape your stress-filled job and head for the roads for a long driving trip, that's the last thing you want to encounter on your vacation: more stress than what you left behind.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:28 PM
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Location: NOCO
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I'm glad, I don't want machines policing me. Sadly in lots of places this is what's taking place. They have speeding cameras in some places, machine takes a picture, get a ticket in the mail, if that wasn't your car or you in it, it's then your responsibility to personally seek out the person who did. They have these redlight cameras elsewhere, they screw with the yellow lights so more people "run the red", machine takes a picture, get a ticket in the mail. Its very profitable though, thats why these are springing up everywhere, a private out of state/country company gets a cut of it, and the government gets a cut. Don't have to pay police officers, don't have to do much but collect the money.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:29 AM
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CatherineFrances will become famous soon enoughCatherineFrances will become famous soon enough
I am glad to hear this about the red light cameras.

That comment about Libertarians was wrong and ignorant by the one poster on here. NO offense!

Governor S. is a Democrat but he is not like ALL Dems... my same opinion goes for Reps, small l and BIG L Libertarians are not ALL alike, same as any other person in ANY political party and even Independents are not "ALL ALIKE" in their views, opinions and votes.

Catherine
Independent now!
Armed and Female
Montana Territory for now...
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Old 05-17-2009, 03:08 AM
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Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CatherineFrances View Post
Governor S. is a Democrat but he is not like ALL Dems...
What's a Dem in MT would be a moderate Rep anywhere else
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:35 AM
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JoeMama2009 will become famous soon enoughJoeMama2009 will become famous soon enough
WA State: red light cameras, biometric scanning, Real ID called "enhanced drivers license", Soviet style police state, warrantless GPS tracking by police, New World Order has arrived....

Montana here we come!
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzfan View Post
I have a bit of a different take on this issue. First Governor Schweitzer is a wimp in that he signs the easy ones and lets the difficult issues become law by waiting the obligatory 10 days. It's no different here.

With respect to the red light cameras, I, were I governor, would have vetoed it. More and more people are killed or seriously injured running red lights than in almost any other violation. If you haven't seen someone run a light or a stop sign recently, then you've probably been asleep at the wheel! It's my contention that a police officer who is paid $80K a year in salary and benefits could have their time put to better use doing something else fighting crime. And we could not afford to put an officer at every problem stop light site.

But, alas, I suppose the Libertarians out there would probably want to do away with stop lights and signs altogether!
We would just privatize all roads. Or at least what are now considered city roads. I suppose it would be up to the people that use the roads whether or not they need stoplights and stop signs.

Maybe someone (a private citizen) would come up with a better idea than lights and signs to control traffic.

One thing is certain. If the roads were privatized the number of fatal traffic accidents would go down. So would injuries. And damage to cars from potholes and such.

Last edited by NorthPoleMarathoner; 05-19-2009 at 10:27 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 05-19-2009, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMama2009 View Post
WA State: red light cameras, biometric scanning, Real ID called "enhanced drivers license", Soviet style police state, warrantless GPS tracking by police, New World Order has arrived....

Montana here we come!
You forgot to add:

The Taliban is coming!!!! The Taliban is coming!!!!
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Old 05-19-2009, 11:05 PM
Heavily armed, easily bored, & off the medication
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthPoleMarathoner View Post
One thing is certain. If the roads were privatized the number of fatal traffic accidents would go down. So would injuries. And damage to cars from potholes and such.
Actually this is one of those things where it works the other way around.

Realworld example: the road up to Ponderosa Pines (N of Three Forks) is privately maintained, by the HOA. From what I hear, it's much beloved of muffler shops, cuz it's infamous for ripping exhaust systems clean off the car thanks to massive ruts and potholes. Conversely the county-maintained roads in the area are at least decent, as gravel roads go.

There are many privately-maintained roads in SoCal. Those outside of new in-city subdivisions (where the contractor was required by the city to implement paved streets) are mostly in from poor condition to almost impassable.

While I'm all for small gov't, and freedom from gov't interference in our lives, there are a few things that simply don't work when privatized: Roads, basic-education schools, police, and fire depts. These were all privatized in the past (historically, they have been mostly privatized!), resulting in extortionate tolls for barely-usable roads, near-universal illiteracy, and a variety of protection rackets. We only get good roads, a high level of general education, and freedom from local mob bosses when these functions are controlled and maintained by a fiscally-sound government. (And I would argue that a fiscally sound gov't is of necessity honest, while a fiscally-unsound gov't becomes dishonest by nature.)

The only one that works at all privatized is a fire dept, and then only for rural areas where letting the house that wouldn't pay burn (and some WILL let it burn) won't jeopardize entire innocent neighbourhoods.

======

Privatizing these functions is a symptom of a fiscally-unsound government:

Redlight cameras are actually a good example of a gov't function (traffic flow) being privatized, to the benefit of no one except the company that owns the cameras. Do note that per every study, injury accidents increase when these PRIVATIZED traffic controls are implemented. Meanwhile, cash-strapped local gov'ts, in the form of privatized ticketing, pull all manner of dirty tricks to maximize their cut of the revenue. (See above about honesty being linked to fiscal soundness.)

Privatized prisons result in harsher punishments for a growing array of trivial offenses, because the more people are behind bars, the more money the prison owners make. (And this money still comes from your taxes, since the state pays the prison on a per-inmate basis.)

Mexico is another good example -- the main reason the cops there are your worst enemy (being the parties most likely to kidnap and extort money from foreigners) is because the gov't is so screwed up (dishonest and a fiscal disaster) that the cops can't count on a regular gov't paycheck, so are forced to make do with what they can "earn" as "private businessmen" so to speak.

========

As to the broad subject of charity and welfare, I'd argue that there was less waste and less abuse (albeit perhaps more "falling through the cracks") when this was principally the function of individuals (pay the beggar or not, as you prefer) and religious institutions. I do find it interesting that per tax info from major political candidates, conservatives donate about 5 times as much of their income to charity as do liberals (even when in the same tax bracket). Funny how people are more willing to share when they do so of their own free will, rather than being forced to do so because everyone knows how selfish people are!
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Old 05-21-2009, 01:53 PM
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Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
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Here's another interesting site:

National Motorists Association Business Membership

Note that the ranking goes from worst to best.

Montana is #48, meaning it is the 3rd most motorist-friendly state in the union.

See also http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/27/2783.asp
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