Montanan "Culture" (Billings, Missoula: transplants, for sale, real estate)

[mbreshears]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypad
There is little culture, shopping is next to nil. I did not find the people very friendly. .

The reasons that so many locals have problems with "outsiders" should be apparent in the attitudes of some of those out of staters. People come here, wanting to enjoy the beauty and scenery and lifestyle etc, taking for granted that which makes this place, Montana. To say that there is no culture is as ignorant as going to a small village in Africa, or Alaska, and saying the same thing. Simply because the culture does not include broadway plays or fancy European themed art museums does not in any way signify a lack of culture. Perhaps Montana demonstrates even more. Montana is its own culture, and if you cannot appreciate that fact, and embrace it, the locals most likely will not be friendly and welcoming. Why should they welcome someone who wants to "enlighten" or "improve" such a cultureless and obviously "behind the times" society?
Out of 12 definitions of culture from Dictionary.com Unabridged (v1.1) Random House, 6 easily describe the type of culture that is present in Montana:
"3. a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period: Greek culture.
4. development or improvement of the mind by education or training.
5. the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
6. Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.
9. the raising of plants or animals, esp. with a view to their improvement.
10. the product or growth resulting from such cultivation."

The American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition defines it this way:
"The sum of attitudes, customs, and beliefs that distinguishes one group of people from another. Culture is transmitted, through language, material objects, ritual, institutions, and art, from one generation to the next."

Perhaps this will give a little insight to those who can't understand why all people moving in from those "cultured" states don't always receive a warm reception. Embrace the culture and identity of your new home (all of it, not just the scenery and warm fuzzy parts) and you should fit right in.

[montanamom]

I would like to put in my 2 cents after living in Montana for exacly one year, this week. It was never my choice to move to Montana - there was a custody situation involved that I won't get into, but that is why I am here, and I have spent the past year trying to make the most of it. I never thought I would leave the East Coast where I was born and raised, having grown up in an affluent area of the Washington, D.C. suburbs, and having spent 10 years in a small town near Charlotte, N.C. where I also have family ties.
However, during the year I have lived here (in Stevensville, Mt.) and worked here (in Missoula, Mt.), I am offering the following observations, just my opinion of course, for your consideration:

- The native people of Montana are welcoming, liberal for the most part, middle income average working people, and very concerned about the environment, caring for the abundant wildlife here, and preserving their way of life. Native Montanans are not hung up on status symbols and materialism AT ALL, and are very down-to-earth. There are still REAL cowboys here and rancher/farmer families trying to survive and continue a way of live that has been handed down from generation to generation. This year, one such family rancher, John Tester, a Democratic, was elected to the U.S. Senate by the people of Montana, by both Democratic and Republican voters alike, who were sick and tired of the corrupt ways of the former Republican Senator, Conrad Burns. Tester is a true Montanan and a man of the people.
- The influx of status concious, materialistic weatlthy people from New York, California, and elite New England, has caused a huge demand for the land that exists here, and developer's and Realtors' are ravenous to meet their needs for land, and to build garish McMansions in which they want to live, if only as "vacation" homes. Apparently, it is the "in thing" amoung the elite of this county to say they own a "ranch in Montana".
- You can always spot the phony ,wealthy "cowboys" and their wives by their crisply pressed, much too new and clean, "Cowboy Dress-Up-Clothes" , meanwhile sporting cell phones and driving Hummers or Cadillac Escalades. They are truly laughable. After a while they get tired/bored of their pretend "Montana Ranches", and put them up for sale. There is a glut of multi-million dollar homes/ranches on the market right now - no real Montanan can afford them.

If you are going to move to Western Montana, you have to be a lover of the outdoors, hunting, peace and quiet, etc., or truthfully, you will be bored out of your mind. Yes, the crime is very low here, I feel much safer here than I did in North Carolina, and it is so much much quieter and less congested than your standard "metropolis" like the one I grew up in around D.C. But there is a definite trade-off for that. There is a lot less to do unless you are into the outdoor and hunting thing, etc., , you have to drive a lot farther to get to things, you feel somehwat secluded from the rest of the "world", and if you want diversity, you are not going to find it here. Peace and quiet do abound, if that's what you want. At this stage of my life, I need a little more "stimulation" and a little less peace and quiet, but that's just me.

- There is very little in the way of work here, I am apparently lucky to have the job I have, and that is just a management position at a major retailer. If you don't already have a pot of money from selling real estate or whatever, you better do your research. Housing is expensive, at least here in the Bitteroot Valley and Missoula, and a lot of people are working multiple part-time jobs to survive. I am in a nice, new manufactured home, but on a rented lot because just a 1 acre tract of land averages $100,000 or more. I can't touch a home on land on my income, and I hate that, having always been a homeowner. Billings and Butte Montana are supposedly cheaper, but not as pretty, or so I'm told.


Well, that's all I've got for now.

[JoeJoeMan]

Hey montana mom..........right on !
The real problem is that every one does move here for the outdoors, in fact no one moves here to find a job - there ain't any.
Half the people that move here don't care because they are already rich, and the other half are to stupid to realize they won't be able to eat the mountains when their money runs out and they really can't find any kind of decent job. I can't tell you how many people I've meet over the years that finally came to their wits end and finally threw in the towel, packed up and left.

Anyway - about culture, isn't that what this thread is about - I've always joked about Montana culture, yea it has culture alright, you can sum it up in three words "Cowboys and Indians", and I'm not saying that's bad mind you. In fact a past and way of life to be admired.
But on the other hand what passes for culture in the likes of place like Missoula is really a joke. People should be arrest for what they try to pass off as ethnic food in that town......if that's a bagel - I'll eat my shoe, pizza - I'd rather eat dog food, and the up-ity resturants ain't much better. Missoulian do think they are just the cat's meow though when it comes to culture. The local Missoula art and music scene is just a joke. I once stop in a foo-foo bar there and saw a very pathetic band there, I actually felt a bit sorry and embaressed for them, because I thought the crowd was jering them....silly me, come to find out they were one the so called top Missoula groups. I heard they once opened for a name act who came to town, and the leader of the name act got so ticked off and said he wanted them off the stage that they were an embarrasment and would chase out the audience, silly him - he didn't know hip Missoulians eat that stuff up.....and don't get me started on the local artist..........
All that being said, there are some really talented people in Missoula but they don't get near the respect they deserve, how could they the local hip implants that now control the media and write the reviews haven't the foggy-ist idea what good art is and the audience is just as clueless.
I've had friend come visit me from other areas of the country and they just laugh at what passes for food, music and art around here.
I've had friends here in western montana that were world class performers, with the likes of carnige hall and broadway to their credit, both had the talent and credenticals that far exceeded their local peers and supervisors, they both left for greener pastures, elluding to how the university and other local venues had treated them with disrespect and stiffled their careers. Actually I guess it didn't surprise me Missoula has a certain element that is, how shall we say, "full of itself" and I guess in some degree either has no idea of greatness when it does stare them in the face or they are just to insecure and intimidated by it. In either case the town truely lost to individuals who were literally at the top of their game in classical music and theatre, what a shame for the town, but last I heard the two performers are doing much better things with their repective careers. Funny how that works out isn't it.

[grizzfan]

This year, one such family rancher, John Tester, a Democratic, was elected to the U.S. Senate by the people of Montana, by both Democratic and Republican voters alike, who were sick and tired of the corrupt ways of the former Republican Senator, Conrad Burns. Tester is a true Montanan and a man of the people.

Before this Montana native begins to barf, let me point out that Tester won by 1,400 votes; 10,000 votes were cast for the Libertarian fellow - the most a Libertarian ever got in this state and they were votes cast by Republicans, primarily, who were duped by the total smear tactics of the Democrat party - shameful smear on a good man and a good friend. Probably the only reason he won was the availability of same day registration and hundreds of college students were herded to the court house in Missoula, Bozeman and Billings to vote for Tester. As for Jon Tester he is the consumate empty suit. He brings nothing to the table, except his anti-war stance that some of you leftist transplants so dearly embrace. Do not look for one single accomplishment from this fellow in the next 5.5 years. Yes, I'm counting to the day this 'true Montanan and man of the people' is back on the farm.

[GiftShoppeGuy]

It is indeed unfortunate that Missoula cannot see the error of it's ways when it comes down to culture.

And yes, they are full of themselves.

Those who would profess to know "culture" in Missoula, are the ones that couldn't make it anywhere else in the real world of culture.

[JoeJoeMan]

Giftshopguy Wrote

It is indeed unfortunate that Missoula cannot see the error of it's ways when it comes down to culture.

And yes, they are full of themselves.

Those who would profess to know "culture" in Missoula, are the ones that couldn't make it anywhere else in the real world of culture.

I see there is another point we agree upon..............

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Giftshopguy Wrote


I see there is another point we agree upon..............

Ah yes.....

Sometimes I'm embarrassed to admit that I lived in and around Missoula for well over 20 years.......

I know about that place more than I'd like to.

[JoeJoeMan]

Yes, it is only by circumstance that I found myself living by Missoula many years ago, and well, I guess I didn't move fast enough and now the roots are too deep and I'm to old.
But from day one, I realize that this whole liberal/college/hippy type people and flavor that perveys the area, is a bit self absorbed, pretentious, better-than-thou, however you'd wanna say.....I do find them amusing though, you have to do, because in reality they are so out of it.
For example they have some of the worst food I"ve ever tasted in Missoula, the bakeries are a great example, their stuff is so expensive and it's just crap, and yet the local hippy crowd just can't stop praising them enough and eating it up...no poun intended....
I've seen some, well what they call pies in bakeries there, they look like someone sat on them, the cost upwards of $30 if you can beleive that, some hippy college kid in the back room made it who never made a pie before in his life, but it's in a 'hip' bakery so......the whole 'scene' is really laughable.

[GiftShoppeGuy]

I'll have to admit that I was one of those who didn't care to go to college in Montana.
As a youngster, I wanted out.... Got my education at the University Of Oregon.... of all places... quite a culture shock for me to say the least.... it was the 60's then, and man-o-man, what a wake up call that was.
There just wasn't any room for a wild eyed Montana boy from Dillon around Eugene in those days.

After college, I swore by all that was holy, that I'd never live in another college town.... and ended up living in Missoula.... so much for the holy stuff I guess.

My roots run deep as well in that area. I have plenty of friends still living there and when Dad passed on, my brother and I ended up with all of the "family land" down in the bitterroot, and a bunch over in Granite County too.

We leave the land alone, mostly, and run cows out there on occasion.
I get into the Zoo (missoula) quite a bit still though.

I moved to Great Falls because it reminded me of how the Missoula area used to be years ago (old montana).

Missoula, for the most part, has always been the "odd duck" in the state, for as long as I can remember. When I was a youngster, Dad would go to pick up tractor parts that came in on the train to Missoula from Spokane, and he would never really let me go with him, citing Missoula as "sin city"..... yup, even in the days of my Dad, Missoula was known with mired reputation.

I don't think I can remember a period of time though, that Missoula has been as "stuck on themselves" as they are now.

Oh, and if it means anything at all (here's some Montana culture)...... I don't do Foo Foo Food.... I'm a tried and true man of the beef..... If it aint dripping with cholesterol, then I don't want it.



Oh, and one more thing....... Missoula could never even compare themselves to how Eugene, Oregon was in the 60's/70's....
as "hippie culture" they certainly "are not".

[fbcobrn]

Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy

I get into the Zoo (missoula) quite a bit still though.
......Missoula, for the most part, has always been the "odd duck" in the state, for as long as I can remember.
......I don't do Foo Foo Food.... I'm a tried and true man of the beef..... If it aint dripping with cholesterol, then I don't want it.
Oh, and one more thing....... Missoula could never even compare themselves to how Eugene, Oregon was in the 60's/70's....as "hippie culture" they certainly "are not".

Having only "driven" thru "the Zoo" from airport to Hamilton, I haven't experienced that adventure yet. But it definitely sounds like the town of "Bezerkley" (Berkley, Ca) out here on the West Coast near me. Talk about your OLD Hippies....... Cal Berkeley still seems mired in the 60's and 70's politically, adversarily, culturally. Just the drugs have changed. (I think it's a requirement for every state to have a college town like this).

Something about organic this and that, sprouts, granola and soy doesn't do much for me either. All that keeps this body going is preservatives and sugar.