Did you see the program on "Wounded Knee"? (Custer: school, gangs)

[jmgg]

Yes, the states of Montana and South Dakota are close to each other. However Pine Ridge abuts the Nebraska border and is quite a long distance to where Montana starts. Check your own map. That's why I could not understand what an article about Wounded Knee is connected to the Montana state's site.

Your information that AIM was invited to come help remove a "corrupt" indian leader may have some merit. That part of history I don't remember. However, who invited them? AIM was not universally loved on the reservation. There was no huge outcry from Pine Ridge begging AIM to come. I'd love to hear names of who actually wanted AIM's presence. You can be rest assured it was from those who were already sympathizers to the group and probably were members living on the reservation.

AIM did for a short time in history get the attention of the country, much like the Black Panthers did back in the 60's and early 70's. Some of this attention did help the indian cause, but most of what they did I believe was more of a hindrance to the indian people as was the Black Panthers to the black people. Dr. Martin Luther King accomplished far more in helping the civil rights cause of blacks by using an intelligent approach. The indian leaders of the 70's and today should do the same.

Striving more for the future instead of obsessing about the past would be a good start. A giant step in this would be putting to rest the notion of being a sovereign nation. It's this idea more than anything that has allowed the degree of corruption in tribal governments to continue and out of control crime with only the BIA to fight it to happen.

There's a lot of sympathy among people in SD as well as other states with substantial indian populations, towards the reservation situation. It would help if the reservation people would get rid of these outdated notions and really work towards living in the 21st century and not the 19th century. Improvements have to be made, because the situation is not getting better.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by jmgg

Striving more for the future instead of obsessing about the past would be a good start. A giant step in this would be putting to rest the notion of being a sovereign nation. It's this idea more than anything that has allowed the degree of corruption in tribal governments to continue and out of control crime with only the BIA to fight it to happen.

Of course. And that's what a lot of us have been saying -- get out of that culture of "being victims" (whether you're black, Indian, Martian, or whatever). Maybe your great-great grandparents were victims, but that doesn't mean YOU have to preserve that status and live as if you're still a victim. Go be yourself, stop living in the past.

But there's a small group who make a good living off preserving that culture of victimhood -- and so long as they can get believers, it'll continue to some degree. One hopes as more kids grow up and see the real world, it'll die out.

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by jmgg

Yes, the states of Montana and South Dakota are close to each other. However Pine Ridge abuts the Nebraska border and is quite a long distance to where Montana starts. Check your own map.

This is not just a South Dakota issue, its silly to think the discussion stops at the border. This issue is regional.

Originally Posted by jmgg

Your information that AIM was invited to come help remove a "corrupt" indian leader may have some merit. That part of history I don't remember.

They had a series of town meetings to talk about how they were going to get rid of the "corrupt" Indian leader. In the final meet a respected woman in the group pushed for contacting AIM, who was in Montana at the time, and having them come over and do what they do. An elder stood up and voiced his support for the idea. Now, these last bits of information I gathered from the PBS program they showed last week so if you have interest in this topic you should watch that program-- it was very well done.

Originally Posted by jmgg

AIM did for a short time in history get the attention of the country, much like the Black Panthers did back in the 60's and early 70's. Some of this attention did help the indian cause, but most of what they did I believe was more of a hindrance

It was both a hindrance and a help. At that time in history people were primed for the idea of civil rights so the timing was perfect. The location was also perfect as the government did not want to have another "massacre" in the same location as whatever happened in 1890.

[jmgg]

Good posts Reziac and AQHA. This is an interesting topic and being a longtime resident of SD with many relatives originating from NE Montana (Circle, Wolf Point area) & Western North Dakota it's very pertinent history to me.

I plan on viewing the PBS documentary as soon as I can.

Incidentally, I witnessed the riot first hand at the Minnehaha Co. Courthouse in Sioux Falls. The indians claimed this was spontaneous. Yea, right. I even saw one car loaded down with rocks in the trunk. Doubtful they needed the extra weight in the trunk for traction in the summertime.

They gained absolutely nothing from this other than to turn people away from their issues.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by AQHA

This is not just a South Dakota issue, its silly to think the discussion stops at the border. This issue is regional.

They had a series of town meetings to talk about how they were going to get rid of the "corrupt" Indian leader. In the final meet a respected woman in the group pushed for contacting AIM, who was in Montana at the time, and having them come over and do what they do. An elder stood up and voiced his support for the idea.

True -- our northern plains Indians are not the "property" of any single state.

As to the people who pushed to bring in AIM -- you have to wonder if they really knew what they were getting themselves into. Most people have only the most superficial notion of what ANY radical or activist group is about, even if it's a group that purports to defend their interests. (Witness how PETA and HSUS have most of the world fooled into believing they defend pets from abuse, when in fact they are working for prohibition of ALL animal use/ownership.) With 20-20 hindsight, would the locals have called in AIM, or would they have sought their own solution?? I'd bet on the latter.

[AQHA]

The PBS program has been on several times the last few weeks, where you saw part of this situation there at the courthouse you definitely need to view it. They also talk at some length about the riot at the courthouse and show quite a but of footage from that.

Originally Posted by jmgg

.

They gained absolutely nothing from this other than to turn people away from their issues.

They gained nothing from the courthouse incident, but it could easily be argued that the "stand off" at Wounded Knee was very helpful to the Indian cause as it drew considerable media attention and even turned the heads of several Hollywood big boys. Including Marlin Brando, who refused to show up for the Oscars. He sent a Native American woman to accept his award and speak briefly about the incident at Wounded Knee. She had Americas ear when she used the moment to reinforce the problems the Sioux were having. The media was so interested in what she had to say that she has a media briefing afterwards as well. Where was Mr Brando? He claims he was headed to South Dakota, although this was never confirmed, and its very doubtful he could have made it within the borders of the fight even if he did go to SD.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by jmgg

Incidentally, I witnessed the riot first hand at the Minnehaha Co. Courthouse in Sioux Falls. The indians claimed this was spontaneous. Yea, right. I even saw one car loaded down with rocks in the trunk. Doubtful they needed the extra weight in the trunk for traction in the summertime.

They gained absolutely nothing from this other than to turn people away from their issues.

The vast majority of "grassroots activists" and "protest demonstrators" are in fact paid by some parent organization, and they DO plan their actions, including stuff like "spontaneous riots", arson, etc. People who specifically follow activist movements report seeing the same faces at widely diverse events. I'm told they make about $18/hour, too.

Why bother? Because it's a lot easier to get your special interest pushed to the legislative forefront, thus into a position where it can profit, if you can wave around "public indignation" over whatever benefits your special interest. Activism has become a multimillion dollar INDUSTRY.

(The linked article happens to be about the animal rights industry, but applies equally to any other activism that has reached this level.)

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by Reziac

True -- our northern plains Indians are not the "property" of any single state.

Thats right, they are owned by ALL Americans.

Originally Posted by Reziac

Witness how PETA and HSUS have most of the world fooled into believing they defend pets from abuse, when in fact they are working for prohibition of ALL animal use/ownership.

If PETA had their way I would be arrested for riding my horse.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by AQHA

Including Marlin Brando, who refused to show up for the Oscars. He sent a Native American woman to accept his award and speak briefly about the incident at Wounded Knee. She had Americas ear when she used the moment to reinforce the problems the Sioux were having. The media was so interested in what she had to say that she has a media briefing afterwards as well. Where was Mr Brando? He claims he was headed to South Dakota, although this was never confirmed, and its very doubtful he could have made it within the borders of the fight even if he did go to SD.

Marlon Brando is a grandstander. Here's an interesting bio article on his personality and his activism: Marlon Brando - Biography

The most relevant passages:

Richard Burton, an intellectual with a keen eye for observation if not for his own film projects, said that he found Brando to be very bright, unlike the public perception of him as a Terry Malloy-type character that he himself inadvertently promoted through his boorish behavior. Brando's problem, Burton felt, was that he was unique, and that he had gotten too much fame too soon at too early an age. Cut off from being nurtured by normal contact with society, fame had distorted Brando's personality and his ability to cope with the world, as he had not had time to grow up outside the limelight.

Charlton Heston, who participated in Martin Luther King's 1963 March on Washington with Brando, believes that Marlon was the great actor of his generation. However, noting a story that Brando had once refused a role in the early 1960s with the excuse "How can I act when people are starving in India?", Heston believes that it was this attitude, the inability to separate one's idealism from one's work, that prevented Brando from reaching his potential.

In short, he behaves like a typical liberal wacko, when it will get him attention and acclaim. All too common in Hollywood.

[zthatzmanz28]

The Book IN THE SPIRIT OF CRAZY HORSE