Montana on pace to surpass 1 million residents by 2012 (Manhattan, Power: middle-class, hotel)

[Timberwolf232]

There are some from other places too, but you would be surprised how many "pants to the ankles wearin', ebonic speaking, bass blasting, crooked hat wearing, " little bastards are running around in Gallatin County. I understand the parents trying to help their kids out by moving, but it really does cause problems in the schools here.

[Fodderman]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

We have enough people coming from California already..

The real question should be how do we STOP them? They seem to bring along all the crap they say they are trying to leave behind most of the time.

There are certain Californians we should be trying to get to come to Montana. Specifically, the business owners. With this economy and with States like California looking to squeeze businesses (an everyone else) for even more money, now's the perfect time to try to attract businesses from other states. The fastest way to do this:

1. Replace the income tax with a sales tax. I understand the argument that this not be done without some sort of guarantee that, after a sales tax is implemented, an income tax cannot be reimplemented. I agree with that.

2. Deregulation. The income tax move will attract the bigger businesses. Deregulation will help with the smaller businesses. When running my business, sometimes I'd rather just pay higher taxes than having to deal with all the hoops that governments make you jump through. If the regulation is not absolutely necessary, dump it.

Those two things, combined with the lower cost of living in Montana and resulting lower cost of wages compared to, say, downtown Los Angeles, the Bay area, or other big city, would get businesses moving here and, more important, jobs. The direct jobs from the relocating businesses would then trickle down to other jobs....

Sure, you'd get a few transplant workers from other states as well. But the weather would probably drive most of them out in a year or two.

[monkeywrenching]

Originally Posted by geonerd

that'll be 999,998 if my wife and I are lucky.

My GF, daughter and myself are planning on moving to Montana before 2012, so that number will be 1,000,001 then.

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

There are some from other places too, but you would be surprised how many "pants to the ankles wearin', ebonic speaking, bass blasting, crooked hat wearing, " little bastards are running around in Gallatin County. I understand the parents trying to help their kids out by moving, but it really does cause problems in the schools here.

Wow, dont mask your prejudice in rhetoric, why not be open with what you mean. Sounds like you are another one of those 'I hate that those blacks and mexicans keep movin into MY state'.

Get over it. Im sure the states native inhabitants felt the same about your ancestors when they arrived. At least those 'little bastards' are in the state to hunt you down.

My take, change happens everywhere. Trying to resist it is like trying to stop the wind from blowing. Thats just the way things work. That whole 'lets make _____ into a haven for people (politically, ethnically, culturally) like us' style of thinking does work and never has...for ANY place where new waves of people come to. Montanas cheaper living only will bring people who cant afford to make it other places. Youll have problems attracting 'new business deregulation' types for the same reason that working class people would want to move there...because theres not much industry, not much diversity, and not much to offer any person looking to do big business that they couldnt get more of in another larger city (like Denver or Seattle or Minneapolis). There is a reason why each of those places/areas are as big of business havens as they are.

Its the natural progression of places.

Dont like the changing demographics of your state? Move somewhere else and change some other demographics. The people of my home state (texas) would be glad to have more like them (the majority group).

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by tindo80

Wow, dont mask your prejudice in rhetoric, why not be open with what you mean. Sounds like you are another one of those 'I hate that those blacks and mexicans keep movin into MY state'.

Funny thing is that these are 99% white kids running around like this. I am not a racist. It's the attitude that gets under the skin. Most of my army buddies are what you might call "minorities", and our friends from my extended families ranches that come up in the summers for work just might not meet your angry white guy assumptions.

Originally Posted by tindo80

Get over it. Im sure the states native inhabitants felt the same about your ancestors when they arrived. At least those 'little bastards' are in the state to hunt you down.

Ha... nice try, but won't happen. A bunch of wannabe little white kids that watch too much MTV are not going to make much of a difference, but they will surely mess their lives up if they model what happens in LA and other areas here in Montana. I'd take a hard working person of ANY race , religion, or creed over some yuppie kid who lives off their parents money and wont show up to work on time.

Originally Posted by tindo80

My take, change happens everywhere. Trying to resist it is like trying to stop the wind from blowing. Thats just the way things work. That whole 'lets make _____ into a haven for people (politically, ethnically, culturally) like us' style of thinking does work and never has...for ANY place where new waves of people come to. Montanas cheaper living only will bring people who cant afford to make it other places. Youll have problems attracting 'new business deregulation' types for the same reason that working class people would want to move there...because theres not much industry, not much diversity, and not much to offer any person looking to do big business that they couldnt get more of in another larger city (like Denver or Seattle or Minneapolis). There is a reason why each of those places/areas are as big of business havens as they are.

Its the natural progression of places.

Dont like the changing demographics of your state? Move somewhere else and change some other demographics. The people of my home state (texas) would be glad to have more like them (the majority group).

How about keeping it simple... Work hard, and make it... Look for a handout, well you might have to move back to a place that will feed you.

[tindo80]

Originally Posted by timberwolf

Funny thing is that these are 99% white kids running around like this. I am not a racist. It's the attitude that gets under the skin. Most of my army buddies are what you might call "minorities", and our friends from my extended families ranches that come up in the summers for work just might not meet your angry white guy assumptions.

I wasnt calling you a racist. Maybe xenophobic in a regional/social/state/cultural sense...

Even if those wannabe gangster kids are running around looking one way or another, until they actually start breaking the law or causing trouble, whats hurt in how they dress or act?

I am not attacking you, but rather defending those you seem to hold in such low esteem for being different.

I agree with you about the yuppies though. But lets be honest, who likes yuppies? Even in 'the big cities' you wont find that they are that popular in any circle other than their own.

Originally Posted by timberwolf

How about keeping it simple... Work hard, and make it... Look for a handout, well you might have to move back to a place that will feed you.

I agree with you here halfway. I highly doubt anyone moves to MT 'looking for a handout'. Honestly, I doubt any adult in this country actually is motivated as much as people think in 'looking for handouts'. 99.999 percent of all people of all races, creeds, colors, political beliefs, religions etc just want to live in peace, find decent work and live freely and safely with their families.

I probably came off much harsher than I intended towards you, and I apologize for that. Montana is one of the places I am looking to move to upon finishing grad school (due to its amazing outdoors culture, cheap cost of living, and middle-sih proximity to both the mid west and the pac north west.).

[monkeywrenching]

the only handout I ever look for is a handshake and a hello from neighbors and neighborly people.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by tindo80

I wasnt calling you a racist. Maybe xenophobic in a regional/social/state/cultural sense...

Even if those wannabe gangster kids are running around looking one way or another, until they actually start breaking the law or causing trouble, whats hurt in how they dress or act?

I am not attacking you, but rather defending those you seem to hold in such low esteem for being different.

I agree with you about the yuppies though. But lets be honest, who likes yuppies? Even in 'the big cities' you wont find that they are that popular in any circle other than their own.

No worries.. I sounded harsh too. It's just sad to me to see how much more "urbanized" things have gotten, when people usually say they want to move here because they are tired of that kind of thing in their own areas.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Fodderman

1. Replace the income tax with a sales tax. I understand the argument that this not be done without some sort of guarantee that, after a sales tax is implemented, an income tax cannot be reimplemented. I agree with that.

2. Deregulation. The income tax move will attract the bigger businesses. Deregulation will help with the smaller businesses. When running my business, sometimes I'd rather just pay higher taxes than having to deal with all the hoops that governments make you jump through. If the regulation is not absolutely necessary, dump it.

We've already tried that. It's called California, or sometimes New York.

Sales tax hurts the poor the worst, and REALLY hurts marginal businesses in a tight economy. Yuppies and tourist traps won't mind, but it will hurt locals, and the businesses who rely on locals.

Regulation should be purely what's necessary and nothing more, but the problem with dereg as it's presently practiced is you get situations like Montana Power, and Socal Edison (and skyrocketing rates).

I was rather shocked to learn that Cascade County is in the process of ditching as much of its regulatory cruft as possible, in the interests of simplifying government and easing citizens' lives (I was even more shocked to get a phone call from the county, asking me how I, as a concerned citizen who had complained about a specific regulation that is preventing me from moving back to GtF, would simplify those affecting MY business). The new regs are supposed to be finalized in July.

[rickers]

Originally Posted by tindo80

I am looking to move to upon finishing grad school (due to its amazing outdoors culture, cheap cost of living, and middle-sih proximity to both the mid west and the pac north west.).

"cheap cost of living" Ha ! There are a lot of places with a much lower cost of living. When you consider all the costs of living such as high property prices on the west side and the long distance driving for basic shopping needs on the east side the cost of living in much of Montana is not very low.