Wolf Hunting/Montana/your thoughts/BE NICE NOW!! (Dillon: home, income)

[seven of nine]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

You didn't seriously open a thread on wolf hunting and expect people to be nice did you? j/k

If we protect the wolves and just let them take livestock like another posted suggested, maybe we should also protect the pine beetles, they are a natural creature too, after all it's not their fault that the forests are dying and turning into tinder boxes.. Sorry about the trees.

Oh wait, the beetles are not cute and furry..

(For the slow ones, the above message has been laced with bio friendly sarcasm...)

I'm not putting in for a wolf tag, as I like to hunt for food mostly.. (although I might go bear hunting one of these years... always wanted to do that.) At the same time if I saw one messing with our cows, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot it, just like we do with coyotes.

And here the three s's work!

[seven of nine]

Originally Posted by brandy77

Leave the wolf alone and a healthy ecosystem will follow. Sorry about the livestock. Move to where the land supports livestock. Wolves keep the coyotes and other predators in check.

Admire your bravery to stepping into this thread!
We have to manage them, we brought them back.

[mtboy]

Originally Posted by brandy77

Leave the wolf alone and a healthy ecosystem will follow. Sorry about the livestock. Move to where the land supports livestock. Wolves keep the coyotes and other predators in check.

So your arguement is that the ranches who have been there for 100+ years need to packup and leave the land because these wolves which Washington forced down our throats are now spreading out? They just need to be managed... I am not saying extermination... just managed. Just like we do with the elk, deer, bear, antelope... management. FWP do this for a living let them do their job. The madness generated over the wolves has to stop sometime. Let the FWP do their job and manage the animals.

[rickers]

I'm not a treehugger and I'm not a rancher so I don't have a dog in this fight ! (pun intended). I would like to post this picture below of a Timberwolf stalking a young Grizzly Bear. That wolf has some huevos !

[Timberwolf232]

Great picture! I'm not a rancher either, but we do raise a cow every year up at a friends place, I've seen coyotes there but no wolves..

Come to think of it, the only wolves I've ever seen in the wild were up in the Bozeman Pass in the Gallatin's last year.

[magoomafoo]

Originally Posted by brandy77

Leave the wolf alone and a healthy ecosystem will follow. Sorry about the livestock. Move to where the land supports livestock. Wolves keep the coyotes and other predators in check.

Where are you from? How about you research and get back to us on where we would find land that supports livestock WITHOUT the threat of wolves/bears/coyotes. I suppose that if/when a wolf attacks a child here in Montana, you will say that family needs to find land that will support the human race. The fact is that when the wolves were reintroduced the goal was to attain a population of 100. Montana is now at over 500 with the population growing at a rate of 20% per year. Do the math people. The Defenders, Sierra, Resources committees ect....say that removing 75 (the quota set) will have a substantial impact HAH! They are breeding at an alarming rate. There is no law that states a wolves life is more important than a humans. Therefore, SHOOT! I have family in the Paradise Valley between Livingston and Gardiner. They are mostly ranchers. They deserve the RIGHT to live and prosper as do their children. I have difficulty being nice because the wolf issue is affecting my family.

[ElkHunter]

If it's like here, does the Fish and Game or the Forestry service say you have wolves in your area?

Here, they say we don't. But we do. So we can legally shoot one and say, it was a stray dog. Because there are none in this area, according to Fish and Game and Forestry.

[MTSilvertip]

I too must admit it is difficult being civil on this subject.

My family also has land in the Paradise valley area and some of my relations still try to have an agricultural life there.

My one cousin has a ranch about 1/2 way down the valley. He has been hit many times by wolves and in fact was one of the first ranchers to be issued a "shoot on sight" permit several years ago.

The elk herds I have hunted for many years are decimated. You will see herds of cows now with no surviving calves in the fall.

The large herd bulls who are weak from the rut going into winter are very vunerable to attack by wolves as they are more likely to be alone or in small groups unable to fight off attacks.

The deer have been pushed out of the higher country and now live among humans for safety, (see Helena's current problems with deer as wolves fill the Elkhorn Mountains).

It is heartrending to remember the herds of wildlife as they were a few short years ago, and see what has transpired.

Elkhunter, to answer your question, no, the local authorities won't disseminate any information about wolves infesting an area until they can't hide it because of a herd of sheep or cows being destroyed by the packs.
Last week a rancher near Dillon lost 120 registered sheep that were the product of 80 years of dedication and breeding. They were killed sometime in a 3 day period between checks done by the family.
The defenders of wildlife had a program to pay ranchers for losses and the State supposedly is responsible now, but there have been no donations for the fund.
All that is authorized for a ram sheep is $340.00, while a registered ram with the breeding of those killed in this incident can be worth over $1000.00. Just another write off I guess.

Simple fact is that if the ecko-wackos keep stopping the citizens and Fish and Game from controlling these animals, there will be the onset of an unregulated SSS season that won't worry about "genetic diversity".

These animals were shoved down our throats, not welcomed, and if not controlled, there is a distinct possibiltiy of people taking matters into their own hands.
There has to be some common sense in this or emotion will take over.
Those who have to live with the infestation will correct the mistake if the state doesn't allow a way to protect our livestock, wildlife resources and families from these creatures.

That is about as civil as I can get on the subject.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by seven of nine

Want to tell how is works? Sex, (now you know what I mean) age, size? How is it determined?
Should be challenging just tracking them. Pretty exciting, not exactly a deer in the open field

Should help weed out the ones that have become TOO brave around man, and TOO willing to come up into livestock areas. The shy ones, no one will ever see to hunt 'em in the first place.

[Montana Griz]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

I too must admit it is difficult being civil on this subject.

My family also has land in the Paradise valley area and some of my relations still try to have an agricultural life there.

My one cousin has a ranch about 1/2 way down the valley. He has been hit many times by wolves and in fact was one of the first ranchers to be issued a "shoot on sight" permit several years ago.

The elk herds I have hunted for many years are decimated. You will see herds of cows now with no surviving calves in the fall.

The large herd bulls who are weak from the rut going into winter are very vunerable to attack by wolves as they are more likely to be alone or in small groups unable to fight off attacks.

The deer have been pushed out of the higher country and now live among humans for safety, (see Helena's current problems with deer as wolves fill the Elkhorn Mountains).

It is heartrending to remember the herds of wildlife as they were a few short years ago, and see what has transpired.

Elkhunter, to answer your question, no, the local authorities won't disseminate any information about wolves infesting an area until they can't hide it because of a herd of sheep or cows being destroyed by the packs.
Last week a rancher near Dillon lost 120 registered sheep that were the product of 80 years of dedication and breeding. They were killed sometime in a 3 day period between checks done by the family.
The defenders of wildlife had a program to pay ranchers for losses and the State supposedly is responsible now, but there have been no donations for the fund.
All that is authorized for a ram sheep is $340.00, while a registered ram with the breeding of those killed in this incident can be worth over $1000.00. Just another write off I guess.

Simple fact is that if the ecko-wackos keep stopping the citizens and Fish and Game from controlling these animals, there will be the onset of an unregulated SSS season that won't worry about "genetic diversity".

These animals were shoved down our throats, not welcomed, and if not controlled, there is a distinct possibiltiy of people taking matters into their own hands.
There has to be some common sense in this or emotion will take over.
Those who have to live with the infestation will correct the mistake if the state doesn't allow a way to protect our livestock, wildlife resources and families from these creatures.

That is about as civil as I can get on the subject.

>>>>>First of all, I would like to correct any mis-understanding re my post of 8/30, 4:26 pm..... My choice of words was to suggest that this thread be kept within the confines of a civil and respectful discussion.......to that end, I believe we have been 100% successful.....I just didn't want it to turn into "a pi$$ing contest"......no one benefits when that happens. Secondly, I did not mean to imply that I was "in favor-of-the Wolf" and against the hunting of this species. In fact, I have a 7' 3" Canadian Timber Wolf on my living room wall (harvested in N/W B.C. in 1996). It was a "fair-chase" hunt..on foot.. conducted when the wolves in that area were slaughtering the local Caribou
herd. Simply "too many wolves" for that area, at that time. I felt "good" about my harvest and would like to think that I "helped" in the proper "management" of the wolf in that area--at that time".

I am approaching the end of my 80th decade and having been a hunter since the age of 10, I have seen the "rise & fall" of various game populations. If the current number of wolves here in Montana in not reduced quickly and significantly, our elk (and deer) populations will continue to decline at an unprecedented rate.

To MTSilvertip............your post is 100% "on target".

P.S. As an after thought...........Just imagine what tremendous benefit could have been derived (by RKY MT Elk Foundation; Trout UL: etc,etc) from the "millions of dollars" spent on wolf reintroduction. According to information obtained from the "fwpmt.gov" website, the cost so far EXCEEDS 25 MILLION dollars. That's no less than $50000.00 PER WOLF!