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Old 03-12-2012, 09:23 AM
 
202 posts, read 399,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
I don't know about you Americans????? In Montana you seem to have a lot of problems with your wolves, all 500 of them. It's a topic you often read about or see shows about.

Here in Ontario we have around 10,000 wolves and you seldom hear anything about them. Why is that? Maybe our cattle are tougher than yours????

Guess not. Seem you have a different problem up there:

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Old 03-12-2012, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
4,895 posts, read 5,775,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
I don't know about you Americans????? In Montana you seem to have a lot of problems with your wolves, all 500 of them. It's a topic you often read about or see shows about.

Here in Ontario we have around 10,000 wolves and you seldom hear anything about them. Why is that? Maybe our cattle are tougher than yours????
Some of the difference may be numbers.
Per OMAFRA , as of January 1, 2012 there are 1,714,300 cattle of all kinds in Ontario.
Number of Cattle on Farms, July 1986 to January 2012 ('000 head) While in Montana there are 2.6 million beef cattle and another 18,000 dairy cattle.
Montanakids | Montana's Cattle Industry

Ontario has more dairy cattle at 20,500 bulls, 322,900 cows and 158,200 heifers. Dairy cattle are kept in barns and close in corrals so they can be milked at least twice a day. They are not exposed to preditors because they are not away from protection at any time.

Most of Montana Cattle are Beef so are not kept in feed lots and are grass grazed on open land so are far more vunerable to attacks.

Another advatage Canada has is that the wolves are conditioned to avoid human contact because they can be hunted and trapped unlike Montana where we have just started being able to control the problem.

The situations are apples and oranges.
[RIGHT] [/RIGHT]
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:47 AM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,283,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast View Post
Have to chime in here. That wolf picture has been on the web for a long time, and is generally considered, shall we say, "enhanced." We had a discussion about that over on the Idaho forum. The wolves are definitely huge, but apparently not quite that huge. When I pose for a picture with my German Shepherd in front of me, because of the photo being two-dimensional, she looks gigantic, too.

Yes it is an Idaho wolf but it is NOT enhanced. My friend shot a 120# wolf this year during the Montana season and that is considered small. It was in fact the smallest one in the pack. The only reason he shot the smallest one was that it was the first one in the string and came in to 15 yards from my friend, started growling so my friend shot to avoid a nasty confrontation with the whole pack. Another friend just 15 miles down the road shot a 170# wolf coming in to his cattle (he had a tag). Two hours later, a pack of coyotes were spotted in the calving pen, he shot two of them. The coyotes shot were 1/4 of the size of the wolf. I'll try and get a picture of the three lined up side to side.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:13 AM
Status: "Harlan Ogilvy was right!" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,291 posts, read 21,809,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz View Post
Just a few documented facts and points of information that are relevant to the above quoted post:............................................. ..............

The wolves that were INTRODUCED (NOT RE_INTRODUCED) into MT several years ago were NOT the same specie of wolf that existed here 100 years ago. The wolves that are now devestating our elk herds are 160 pound Canadian Grey Wolves......not 80 pound Prairie Wolves.

To compare our situation to that of european countries such as Romania is not valid at all..........the type and number of differences in these two areas is obvious to the informed.

Minnesota: I have personal and documented data that the Moose herds in northern Minnesota (particularly in the "Boundary Waters area") have been reduced by 75% over the last 5 years. Elk are not a factor in MN., and the deer populations in the northern half of the state HAVE been adversly effected by the growing wolf population.......Some internet research will confirm the situation in MN.

We (Montana) were "coexisting" quite well with the number of wolves that were living in Montana back in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, & 80s. The problems became appearent shortly after the release of the "Imported Canadian Grey Wolves" in the 1990s.....

The "real facts" that relate to our present situation are readily available to those who "do the proper research"........and not spread "subjective opinions" that are not backed up by documented data.

I'd like to observe a meeting between "wolf advocates" and:

1/ ....the Dillon area rancher that lost over 200 "imported sheep from Spain" in one night.. They were in a corral and were slaughtered "just for the sake of killing>

2/...or the rancher down near Darby who had a $10,000. quarter horse slaughtered in a corral up by his house.

3/....or the Darby area Lion Hunter who lost two of his highly rated and expensive Lion Dogs to wolves within 50 yards of his place.

4/..... and the numerous dog owners in the Bear Creek Canyon area that have lost several domestic family dogs (confined within the property fencing) to wolves.

5/....and the Hamilton resident (inside the city limits) who had their family dog slaughtered, at 10 am, just 50 feet from their front door. (Thank God that wolf was shot by the dog owner).

All of the above situations are documented (by F&G) and have been written about in Montana Newspapers....(and these are just A FEW of many more instances of similiar wolf attacks just here in Ravalli and Beaverhead County).

I don't think it would be wise to bring up "compromise & responsible management" to any of the above Montana residents who have "first-hand" been victims of the so-called Wolf "re-troduction" program in Montana.
Your mistaken in your inference that the decline of Minnesota Moose or flucuations of it's deer populations are in someway being significantly influenced by the 3000 or so wolves here. The deer harvest alone typically runs from 200K to 300K per year. The DNR has repeatedly stated that they suspect that wolf predation is not the cause for the moose decline, but is more likely caused by being more susceptible to disease and parasites due to steadily warming temperatures. eek! they said it Global Warminnnnnng.

Open Spaces: A Blog of the Fish and Wildlife Service
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:14 AM
 
Location: The Woods
16,937 posts, read 22,225,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
I don't know about you Americans????? In Montana you seem to have a lot of problems with your wolves, all 500 of them. It's a topic you often read about or see shows about.

Here in Ontario we have around 10,000 wolves and you seldom hear anything about them. Why is that? Maybe our cattle are tougher than yours????
You have a different type of wolf there, an Eastern Wolf. Smaller than what's in MT generally. The same sort of wolf that used to be in the Northeasten U.S.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:43 PM
 
134 posts, read 63,026 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magoomafoo View Post
Yes it is an Idaho wolf but it is NOT enhanced. My friend shot a 120# wolf this year during the Montana season and that is considered small. It was in fact the smallest one in the pack. The only reason he shot the smallest one was that it was the first one in the string and came in to 15 yards from my friend, started growling so my friend shot to avoid a nasty confrontation with the whole pack. Another friend just 15 miles down the road shot a 170# wolf coming in to his cattle (he had a tag). Two hours later, a pack of coyotes were spotted in the calving pen, he shot two of them. The coyotes shot were 1/4 of the size of the wolf. I'll try and get a picture of the three lined up side to side.
Thanks for the response. I had a friend once who owned a wolf hybrid (?) dog/wolf mix as a pet. It was really beautiful but also really scary! It was not a friendly pet at all. And it had a ferocious bark.

I'm wondering about how big is the average wolf out there? If one were to stand beside you, how tall would it be? Do you see them often?
I would very much like to see the photo of the wolf and coyotes. thanks.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:34 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,283,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RachelDay135 View Post
Thanks for the response. I had a friend once who owned a wolf hybrid (?) dog/wolf mix as a pet. It was really beautiful but also really scary! It was not a friendly pet at all. And it had a ferocious bark.

I'm wondering about how big is the average wolf out there? If one were to stand beside you, how tall would it be? Do you see them often?
I would very much like to see the photo of the wolf and coyotes. thanks.
This is one with the first coyote
Wolf Hunting/Montana/your thoughts/BE NICE NOW!!-wolf.jpg
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:37 PM
 
1,078 posts, read 2,283,416 times
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We don't see them often but that is about to change as calving season is in full swing. They will linger around ranches this time of year for easy pickings. As far as how big the average wolf is here in Montana. For a six foot man standing next to one, the shoulders of the wolf would be somewhere right below the hips. A coyote is about the size of a small labrador retriever.
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,293 posts, read 3,331,005 times
Reputation: 4808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montana Griz View Post
Just a few documented facts and points of info.
...........Minnesota: I have personal and documented data that the Moose herds in northern Minnesota (particularly in the "Boundary Waters area") have been reduced by 75% over the last 5 years. Elk are not a factor in MN., and the deer populations in the northern half of the state HAVE been adversly effected by the growing wolf population.......Some internet research will confirm the situation in MN.
.

It appears that my statements in the above quoted paragraph from my post #42 in this thread are questioned as to their accuracy and validity.................soooo to be more specific and add a few more documented facts, .....the following additional info is submitted:

1/...I specifically referenced the "Boundry Waters Area" in my post, which is approx 375 miles away from the the area in N/W MN and the Agassiz Refuge which is the area referenced in the "link Article" mentioned in post #74. The difference in the topography, foliage and forest density in these two areas is dramatic. My info has come through the DNR office at Tower and also from 3 retired LEO(s) who have private cabins in the general area of East Bearskin lake and Flour Lake (east of The Gunflint Trail) and have wittnessed & observed the moose/wolf problem for the last 15 years.

2/...3 winters ago a field trip on snowshoes by one of the area wildlife managers (out of Tower) found (21) moose and deer kills (in a specific area) that normally, back in the late 1990s, averaged (4) kills (in the exact same specific area). Draw your own conclusions.

3/...My first trip in this area was back in the mid 1950s, so I am not without some degree of personal knowledge.

Anyone reading this is entitled to their own opinions and conclusions. These are mine.......and what I believe to accurately reflect the circumstances and reasons why the population of the moose in the northeastern corner of MN is down so significantly.

Last edited by ElkHunter; 03-12-2012 at 06:42 PM.. Reason: Fixed quote
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:51 PM
 
202 posts, read 399,418 times
Reputation: 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfunkerror View Post
Guess not. Seem you have a different problem up there:
Flying bear kills two Canadians in freak accident - MSNBC Articles

Flying bear kills two Canadians in freak accident
Reuters
11:44 AM EST June 8, 2011
Two Canadians died instantly in a freak accident when a car hit a 440-pound black bear and sent the animal flying straight through the windshield of an oncoming vehicle, local media said on Wednesday.
The bear's body hit the 25-year-old driver and a 40-year-old man sitting behind her and then shot out of the back window. The bear also died.
The accident happened on Monday night in a rural area about 25 miles north of the federal capital Ottawa.
"We don't see (this) often, even if we live in the country. Lots of deer, but collisions with a bear and two people died? That's really rare," local police spokesman Martin Fournel told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp.
Collisions between vehicles and animals are common in Canada, which has a healthy population of large wild animals such as moose and deer.

Copyright 2011 Thomson Reuters. Click for restrictions.





Last edited by gfunkerror; 03-12-2012 at 04:55 PM.. Reason: jus because mt original post seemed to fail ...
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