What is Helena like? (Custer: fit in, daycare, how much)

[bufordtjustice]

Originally Posted by jakeatc

I was reading another thread and it mentioned the smog during the winter months. I've never heard of that before, smog in Montana?

I think that person must've meant "FOG".

I live in Billings, which is the largest city in Montana & we have a tiny bit of "smog" (smoke + fog) once in a while due to the oil refineries & Sugar Beet factory but you only notice it when you are near those factories. I've never seen smog in Helena but then again, I've never lived there - just visited several times.

[MTSilvertip]

Real quick, what Helena gets is an inversion just like what Missoula gets.

Cold air gets trapped in the valley with a warm air layer over it holding in all the smoke and exhaust and whatever.

The air can get pretty thick, and because it is cold air, it holds the temperatures far lower than surrounding areas. Townsend may be 30 degrees, but Helena will be 10 degrees during an inversion.

It isn't smog in the classical sense, but it can effect people with respritory problems. Usually it is described by the Air Quality Division of the Health and Human Services as a high particulate consentration, similar to when the forest fires are burning.

During an inversion the bad air may be mixed with Ice Fog off the reservoirs. Inversions can be pretty as there can be hoar frost an inch deep all over the trees, grass, houses, residents, but it isn't quite the same as smoke or exhaust mixed with fog off the ocean such as what happens in Los Angeles.

Once a wind starts the inversion breaks and the air quality returns. It may take a few weeks for the inversion to build and break, but it rarely lasts more than a month.

[lrmsd]

Originally Posted by rickers

I've been to Helena many times and I never noticed or heard of any smog problem. Missoula can at times get air inversions that trap dirty air at the surface that doesn't get blown away at times but that issue is way over blown by folks on this forum. I'm not sure about Montana City or East Helena but the fine older large houses you see in the older parts of Helena I don't think you'll find in those other towns. I could be wrong but you may only get smaller modest houses and mobile homes in those towns. You could always talk to a few realtors about the tax situation. Tax rates can vary greatly from one town to the next. I know that up here along the highline the property taxes in Havre can be twice as high as some of the nearby towns.

I am not sure if that issue is way overblown on this forum,but having lived in missoula for 4 years [great town,btw],i can assure you it is not overblown from a personal experience standpoint.

I,and others like me,had health issues as a result of said inversion,in the winter time which is when it would happen.

I also had a friend whose job [with the EPA or some derivative agency thereof,in msla at that time,i forget the exact name]was to measure the air quality,and rate it from 1-4,so to speak. When the air was extremely poor,it was recommended for the elderly,infirm,those with allergies and children,to stay indoors. Which,frankly,you may be doing anyway in the middle of winter.

Sure,some folks had lived there for decades or their whole lives,and had no issues with it,thought it was overblown,etc. But some were extremely sensitive to this phenomena and got more colds,infections and allergies b/c of it. So for them,it is not overblown at all.

And the smell-did i mention the smell during the inversion times? blek.owing to the papermill nearby...and air getting trapped is right!

Anyway,msla's still a great town-and i did not hear about a similar thing in helena,so others will have to speak on that...my two cents.(:
oh,and i do recall missoula making the list of the top ten worst air quality cities in the US,even up on the list with LA,etc. so it is real,unfortunately. whether it impacts your quality of life,is another issue entirely and is subjective.

[big skymt1]

Originally Posted by jakeatc

I will be moving to Helena in a few months and I am wondering what the city and surrounding area are like? Is the city close to the mountains? I really have no idea what to expect. I know that certain cities like Bozeman are very expensive and I would imagine that Helena, being the capital, would also be expensive. Anyone know much about Helena?

Helena is a great place with a lot to do if you like the outdoors. And yes Helena is close to the mtns......It is surrounded by them! I think there are affordable areas of Helena as well. I actually live in Helena so I know about it.....some people on here may not know about it because they don't live here....

[MTSilvertip]

And there are some of us who have "actually" been forced by our job to live in Helena or the area for many years who are not enthralled by many of the aspects of the city.

Much of the Hunting is by draw only, or you are severly restricted in what animals you can hunt. There is a lot of really good hunting within a 2 hour drive, but around Helena you are far more likely to see animals within city limits than out where you can actually hunt them.

The fishing used to be great until bucket biologists dumped walleye into Canyon Ferry and destroyed the trout and perch fishery.
More and more of the accesses are being closed down by road closures so only the eilite can use the forest and public lands.

The pine beetle kill is endemic here and much of the forest is now a tinderbox waiting for a match that could destroy not only a lot of the surrounding forest, but could burn right into town.

The streets and interchanges were great for the 1950's, but with the infulx of people, the traffic does not move as efficently as it could and makes for some very hazerdous conditions especially when there are snowstorms or ice storms.

The gulch and city center are dying as business moves outside city limits to avoid the oppressive taxes within city limits which really tax the limits of the rural fire-ems departments with no support from the city. The volunteer departments do outstanding work in the area, but their resources are limited.

Helena isn't a bad place to live,(except for the politics and the taxes within city limits), but it sure isn't paradise on earth either.

It used to be a nice Montana town with a lot of history and recreational opportunities. The change that has taken place in the last 15 years has not been for the better.
It is still a decent place, but there are other places far better.

Not meant as a put down of Helena, but a clear picture has to include both sides of the issue.

[Montana Griz]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

And there are some of us who have "actually" been forced by our job to live in Helena or the area for many years who are not enthralled by many of the aspects of the city.

Much of the Hunting is by draw only, or you are severly restricted in what animals you can hunt. There is a lot of really good hunting within a 2 hour drive, but around Helena you are far more likely to see animals within city limits than out where you can actually hunt them.

The fishing used to be great until bucket biologists dumped walleye into Canyon Ferry and destroyed the trout and perch fishery.
More and more of the accesses are being closed down by road closures so only the eilite can use the forest and public lands.

The pine beetle kill is endemic here and much of the forest is now a tinderbox waiting for a match that could destroy not only a lot of the surrounding forest, but could burn right into town.

The streets and interchanges were great for the 1950's, but with the infulx of people, the traffic does not move as efficently as it could and makes for some very hazerdous conditions especially when there are snowstorms or ice storms.

The gulch and city center are dying as business moves outside city limits to avoid the oppressive taxes within city limits which really tax the limits of the rural fire-ems departments with no support from the city. The volunteer departments do outstanding work in the area, but their resources are limited.

Helena isn't a bad place to live,(except for the politics and the taxes within city limits), but it sure isn't paradise on earth either.

It used to be a nice Montana town with a lot of history and recreational opportunities. The change that has taken place in the last 15 years has not been for the better.
It is still a decent place, but there are other places far better.

Not meant as a put down of Helena, but a clear picture has to include both sides of the issue.

A well composed and honest evalution as related to some important aspects of the Helena area. I applaude your honesty and insightful perspective, since you have lived in Helena for many, many years.....as opposed to generalized statements from a source that (as of 2/27/10) "recently moved to Helena".As a long term resident of Montana and Helena, your opinions and evaluations are appreciated (IMHO) by those who are seeking factual, specific data as related to a specific area. Admittedly, I have little patience with those who, after living in an area for a very short period of time (a month or so at best), are immediately "an expert" regarding that area, and put forth the SAME 'generalized' statements in response to approximately (20) seperate inquiries..................

Again, MTSilvertip, a great post............you have more patience than I!!!

[MTSilvertip]

Thank you Montana Griz, your great response means a lot to me.

I am afraid I also lack patience, but can understand someone being excited about a new place. I was just trying to temper that excitement with a few hard realities as there are a lot of people looking to find someplace safe during this "recession". I don't want people to bet everything on a move to a place that might not meet their expectations.

Helena has a lot of good points, and like any other place has it's own drawbacks too.
When I first came to Helena to go through the Vo-Tech in 1980, it was a great place. there was even a shooting range on Custer Avenue at the FWP station.
Can't do that anymore, that is now really developed area where the Target, Shopko, and 50 other stores have sprung up not to mention the housing development on the north side of the FWP station.

The old movie houses are gone, only cinemax is left, many of the old restaraunts that people still talk about like Wongs that was on North Montana are long gone.
The valley is filled with housing developments now, and high levels of nitrates are collecting in the well water in the North Valley.

There is still a railroad track running across Montana Avenue that snarls traffic at 8:00 AM, noon and 5:00 PM every day. We could really use a bridge there.

I had to move to Helena again in the early 90's for a job. Would have left if I could have, but I have a family to care for so they come first, not my personal preferences. Responsibility can be rough.

As I said before, it isn't a bad place, just not where I would prefer to be given any say in the matter. I have several years to go until retirement, so I will probably be here for a while yet.

But rest assured that the second I retire, I am gone!!!

Helena offers a lot of amenities and has several positive points. I just get really tired of the politics, the gimme mine attitude, and the fact that I have to drive over the mountains to find the peace and solitude to hunt, fish and enjoy Montana.

There are a lot of really great people here too, you just have to look harder to find them these days.

Thank you Griz, you really made a not so great day a whole lot better!!

[MTsam]

MTSilvertip, will you still remain in MT once you retire? I wish you the best- I totally understand how it feels to live in a place you dislike. We all gotta do what we gotta do though, right? Anyhoo, I hope you stay in MT and find a really great place to retire.

[MTSilvertip]

Hey Snowdreamer,

I could never leave Montana. I have traveled the world on the Uncle Sam Plan, and seen a whole lot that leads me to the inescapable conclusion that there is no place better than Montana for me.

I just don't like cities.

I was raised in Bozeman, and have had to live in Helena for a long time now.
I have lived in Billings, (not bad), Great Falls, (for a short time), spent quite a bit of time in Butte, (good place to party) been through Kalispell a few times, spent one of the longest weeks of my life in Missoula, (not a good experience), and come to the realization, I don't really like towns. That is just where the jobs are.

I love the clean solitude and the hardy friendly people of the eastern plains, and have given serious thought to some of the areas on the high line and also in Central Montana. Room to breathe out there.

There are some fabulous places all over the state that are still hidden from notice by the masses because they are hidden and secluded in various mountain ranges and prairies, I won't say where because I want them to stay hidden and perfect.

But most likely....

I have a cabin, (picture has been posted) that is 3 miles from power, a mile from the nearest dirt road, 5 miles from the nearest neighbor, and just a few feet from heaven.

I make my own power, I can connect to internet by cell phone, (there is great reception up there, I guess it is because I am looking down on all the towers), I have my cds and radio, a nice wood stove for heat and cooking, all the comforts of home at just under 7000 feet elevation.

I am a grouchy old bear and like my privacy, and the wife is grumpier than I am, so while I won't be in any larger city or town, I will be in Montana.

I have a high mountain valley all to myself with elk, deer and bear all around me and in the yard most days, lots of timber, a small creek running by the porch, and a view that is unequaled anywhere. I can raise my garden and animals, have my horses and workshop, and most importantly I can play my fiddle and smoke my pipe all I want without disturbing anybody. and if it does, they are trespassing so they need to leave quick!!
Just a quarter section of land. Not a big place by Montana Standards, but enough to give me some space and keep me busy taking care of it.

A retirement doing what I want, when I want and how I want, Now that is living!!
I been crowded too long, need some elbow room.
I have seen europe and asia and the pacific and the atlantic and the mediteranian and etc etc etc... I prefer the solitude of old Montana.

Thanks for asking.

[AQHA]

Great post Silvertip!

Helena is my home and I love it here, but I have to agree with Silvertip on every point he made. Well written post.