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Old 08-28-2007, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
13 posts, read 47,020 times
Reputation: 15

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The world will one day overpopulate itself into extinction. Overpopulation can be directly related to just about any malady affecting the planet today. The planet would be fine without people. Overpopulation will kill you much sooner than terrorists or global warming so relax and enjoy life while you can. Until then people will move around and overpopulate the whole dang country so get used to it and find something else to ***** about.....it's really an OLD complaint.
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Old 08-28-2007, 03:54 PM
 
47 posts, read 183,561 times
Reputation: 24
People in general are killing the earth, not overpopulation. An increase in population will magnify human's destructive nature, but we will not simply overcrowd ourselves into extinction. You are mixing up your cause and effect.
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Old 08-29-2007, 12:01 AM
 
919 posts, read 1,701,099 times
Reputation: 478
Default were not over populated?

I just dont see the U.S. with a billion people. I truly believe we are already over the limit. low water suppls, a food chain that is very fragile. a bridge falls and thousands of people are affected. wait till the power grid goes down. and it can easily happen.
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Old 08-29-2007, 10:01 AM
 
7 posts, read 23,671 times
Reputation: 19
This is a question for all those who are so sensitive to Montanan's resentment toward newcomers: how do you feel about the influx of immigrants to this country?

It's the same problem in Montana but it involves a different set of people. One main difference is that many immigrants, Mexicans for example, are coming to the US to MAKE money. In Montana, the city folks already have the money and just think they can buy their solitude which, frankly, they can afford more than the locals.

So if you're one of the people who has ever complained about bilingual signage etc. imagine how Montanans feel. City folks/outsiders probably share the same Mother Tongue, but they still speak a different language.
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Old 08-29-2007, 01:54 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missouribreaks View Post
This is a question for all those who are so sensitive to Montanan's resentment toward newcomers: how do you feel about the influx of immigrants to this country?

It's the same problem in Montana but it involves a different set of people. One main difference is that many immigrants, Mexicans for example, are coming to the US to MAKE money. In Montana, the city folks already have the money and just think they can buy their solitude which, frankly, they can afford more than the locals.

So if you're one of the people who has ever complained about bilingual signage etc. imagine how Montanans feel. City folks/outsiders probably share the same Mother Tongue, but they still speak a different language.
Oh please, now that's really stretching.... Do I care if LEGAL immigrants come to this country? No, not really. As long as they do their best to speak our language. Now when it comes to signage how exactly do bilingual signs equate to people moving here? Surely you can't be saying that people that were born here speak english but a redneck dialect? And the new people speak a city dialect?
What's next, re-education camps for anyone not from a family that goes back 3 generations?
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:31 PM
 
7 posts, read 23,671 times
Reputation: 19
okay, okay. The Mexican - city slicker immigration is probably a rather lame analogy. And true, it does imply that the only good Montanan is the one with a long genealogy in the state...

But previously the Mexican population only hit the border states and lately they've been moving northward into states that don't have the historic association with the Spanish culture. And although it hasn't hit Montana yet, I know that some of our close neighboring states have this situation. And that is that nearly every phone call you make from the cable company to DMV to the utilities all invite you to press 1 for English or 2 for Spanish. In earlier waves of migration, particularly in the non-tech times, no one had the option to press a number and get their homeland language. They had to assimilate. For one thing, their numbers weren't great enough that it made economic sense to accomodate their lack of language skills. If they didn't learn the language, they suffered economically. Now it's that exact suffering which has prompted the powers-that-be to accommodate this lack of language skills so that when those new immigrants don't have to suffer from lack of assimilation. They don't have to bring us all down.

And I think that's the argument -- or at least the mirrored one -- I'm trying to make but in sort of a convoluted way. When the city folks come they, like the current wave of Spanish speaking immigrants, don't have to assimilate.

And it's not a lack of language that is causing this non-assimilation. It is the fact that they've already got the economic power to overtake the locals. In their previous place of residency, they owned a home which they probably sold for lots of money. They move to Montana -- or better yet, they buy a second home in Montana because in their main residency they still have a premium paying job -- where that pot of money can buy land. Alot of it or certainly in a premium location. Those outsiders can afford to build on it. And nobody's stopping them because they can pay salaries and expand job opportunities. In fact, unlike the Mexicans, instead of bringing us all down, we somehow think they can pull us all up. That if we could just have a couple of good "jobs" -- masonry, excavation etc. etc. -- from these rich folk, then we're gonna be set just fine too. And these people are rich. Some of them are soo rich that just finishing the interiors of their vacation homes could take years of work by Montana craftsmen and carpenters.

These outsiders can purchase their new trucks and leave them garaged for 11 1/2 months out of the year. They can pave their driveways and ask the developer who sold them the subdivided ranch parcel to pave the road into the nearest community. They have the economic power to make those demands and those of us without that kind of money just have to abide by it. If we're operating the grader and need that job, we just do it.

I guess my argument did fall alittle adrift but truly the intent was to show that sometimes if we don't engage ourselves in wanting or not wanting something, it just happens to us. Whether it's immigration from another country or within our own, we have to be careful. We have to engage our wills to help control what is happening around us. Or we'll be screwed and it will be a done-deal and there will be no turning back. And we'll be speaking someone else's language whether real (as in habla Espanol) or perceived (as in doe-anyone-actually-need a private jet runway in the middle of the wilderness?.)
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:44 PM
 
Location: In The Outland
6,023 posts, read 11,869,550 times
Reputation: 3535
The Mexican migrant workers are here now. I just passed six of them getting off work at a rock quarry and walking the few miles from the quarry to town.
(Hot Springs) There are always a few hanging around Plains during the summer.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:06 PM
 
7 posts, read 30,749 times
Reputation: 12
Default Beyond Missoula/Bitteroot?

Hi,

I grew up in the Northeast and live in Boston and am starting to contemplate a move to Montana. The reasons are simple: it's a beautiful state, and it is much, much cheaper than where I live now (I am a teacher & it's difficult to imagine how I could ever own a home in the Boston area); plus the idea of a new start in a new place with a foreign way of life appeals to me a lot.

It seems like most of the posts in this thread concern Missoula and the surrounding areas. What I'm wondering is if other spots, particularly Bozeman, have suffered the same growing pains as Missoula, and if there is similar tension b/w "natives" and "transplants" all over the state, or if this tension is to be found mostly in certain places.

Thanks, too, to all who post often. I've learned a lot about Montana just by perusing these boards in the past few days.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:07 PM
 
68 posts, read 201,996 times
Reputation: 40
Just a note on friendly ex's. My ex-wife of 20 years past at the time, bought
my wedding cake, and attended my wedding, with our grown daughter. I had remained friends with her and hubby for all but the first couple years of her marriage.
Just a note of possible interest, not changing subject matter.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:45 PM
 
68 posts, read 201,996 times
Reputation: 40
One constant problem I see by reading these forums, and living here, for the
past 6 years is the distance between the types of citizens. More and more,
boomers have worked in other states, have been very successful, seen their
homes, (and wages) climb. They saw huge growth in these various states also. They put up with it, when it is time to leave all the stress, as any one might normally do, they look for a place where the pace is slower, and their money will buy much more of that space.
No matter what the local people think about this type person, there right to move here is, is just as guarded as your right to be born and raised here in Montana. Since Montana is not located on the coast, like many inland states are not, Montana has been down the exploitation list.
Many folks who move here do not want nor need a job, just live in clean surroundings and be left alone.If they cannot obtain this, they ask for rules.
Admitedly some of these rules are unreasonable and are natually objected by
the " working class" I guess what I am trying to say is, the disparity of money between the people who are grinding out a living and the wealthy who come from out of state creates a huge boundry line.
People who do go back generations and who have wealth, in regards to the amount of land they may own, also go after the $ when the opportunity may arise. Like it or not, we are all of the same species, and the greatest on the planet for creating big problems, medium problems, and small problems.

If we do not find a genuine way to work together, beginning right at home,
How can we solve the bigger earthly problems, such as the air we breath and the water we drink etc.etc. It may be humanly impossible to get along!
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