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Old 06-14-2007, 02:37 PM
 
2 posts, read 9,868 times
Reputation: 15

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You know you make a very good point, however Montana isn't the only state experiencing this issue.

Couple of things, I am currently active duty Navy and have served my country for more than 25 years. My wife and I fell in love with Montana and purchased 20 acres to build on back in 1994. Once I have finished my 30 years we will build. We bought out by Townsend and love that area and seclusion. I am so disappointed that you would make such a blanket statement to those moving to Montana.

Last time I checked, we in uniform defend our country so that people may do exactly what you say you resent...that is, move where they want, when they want and speak what they want.

Has real estate gone crazy....absolutely, but in all 50 states not just Montana. I have moved every 3 to 4 years in the military, served overseas, so I can personally tell you that it's very expensive no matter where you go.

Yes, people should respect their new community and strive to make it better. Let me ask you this...who is building these homes for the people you resent so much??? I read in this forum that it was mostly Montanians. I also bet that many Montanians have sold their homes and land for huge profits.

Regardless of yours and others opinon I plan to build my retirement home in the great state of Montana, the state I will adopt as "Home" and support my community in every way possible. I think I have earned that right as American and service member who will have committed 30 years of service to this Nation.
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Old 06-14-2007, 04:20 PM
 
31 posts, read 38,318 times
Reputation: 15
The housing bubble has officially "popped", so be prepared for a major correction in prices within the next year or two.

As far as hostility to outsiders, that is a major factor. My wife and I came here to Cut Bank MT to start a small business and after a year we are pulling up stakes and setting up shop in elsewhere.

The people here are Moderator cut: insults I have ever met. And Ive travelled a fair portion of the world.

Avoid small towns at all costs, pick areas that arealdy enjoy an influx of outsiders. Areas without net migration into the area will be controlled by drug dealing police and/or buck toothed, cross eyed freemason r-tards. Just like Cut Bank is.

The flight of the few remaining middle-class folks out of urban areas stands to upset the petty little fiefedoms of a hundred Boss Hogg types that have "good ole' boy" networks spanning 3 generations. They wont give up without a fight.

Moderator cut: more insults

Last edited by Marka; 06-15-2007 at 07:43 AM..
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Old 06-15-2007, 04:19 AM
 
281 posts, read 731,442 times
Reputation: 299
LOL! Two months living here and I have yet to encounter someone rude, such as when shopping or out and about. I suppose I'll make a special thread about it when I finally come across someone rude. (aside from the wreckless drivers) I'm not having issues of running into nasty folks.

I'm not saying it's not happening to others, but I do think the hostility on this particular forum toward newcomers is so overblown and inflated for the sole purpose of driving people away from wanting to even turn an eye toward MT.

And yes, the gentleman who is a serviceman for our country makes an excellent point. He defends this nation, he should be welcomed and respected.

My family members too, fought for my freedoms, and I know my grandfather who fought in WWII would tell me to go live where I want to live. He fought for this country, and for me!
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Old 06-26-2007, 11:20 PM
 
15 posts, read 47,568 times
Reputation: 20
Default burned out on newcomers

I am not so much opposed to growth or transplants as much as I am the notion that once some of these out of staters arrive, they feel it is their undue right to prevent some one else from out of state from doing the same. Out of staters with this attitude have ruined the social fabric and landscape of the Bitterroot Valley with their need for 5 acres and their latest tactics.
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:02 AM
 
281 posts, read 731,442 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by lewisia rediviva View Post
I am not so much opposed to growth or transplants as much as I am the notion that once some of these out of staters arrive, they feel it is their undue right to prevent some one else from out of state from doing the same. Out of staters with this attitude have ruined the social fabric and landscape of the Bitterroot Valley with their need for 5 acres and their latest tactics.
I'm an out of stater, my in laws are natives/locals. I *know* I made a statement somewhere regarding helping them fight land developers because I didn't want to see urburan sprawl take over. I *also* stated that I wouldn't be buying into a subdivision. I couldn't and won't support it. It's my right, now that I am living here as a resident.

But.....since I have been living here, I have noticed that there are plenty of montana natives who either are apathetic to transplants or they let in big box stores. Let's be fair because, I have spoken to a few natives who are happy that a new wal mart is coming to Hamilton! So, I wouldn't place alllll the blame on these new folks coming up here. JMHO
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Old 06-29-2007, 05:52 PM
 
4 posts, read 9,327 times
Reputation: 10
I agree with you wholeheartedly, my man. I know, because I lived there in Missoula for 23 years, and saw a lot of changes, some good, some bad...........but a lot changes nonetheless. You really hit the nail on the head. If you moved there to Montana when we did, back when no one knew where Montana was, then you adapt to it's lifestyle, not it to you. It was worth every minute we lived there.
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Old 06-30-2007, 12:49 PM
 
15 posts, read 47,568 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heart View Post
I'm an out of stater, my in laws are natives/locals. I *know* I made a statement somewhere regarding helping them fight land developers because I didn't want to see urburan sprawl take over. I *also* stated that I wouldn't be buying into a subdivision. I couldn't and won't support it. It's my right, now that I am living here as a resident.

But.....since I have been living here, I have noticed that there are plenty of montana natives who either are apathetic to transplants or they let in big box stores. Let's be fair because, I have spoken to a few natives who are happy that a new wal mart is coming to Hamilton! So, I wouldn't place alllll the blame on these new folks coming up here. JMHO

I think us natives welcome the growth, it has been both good and bad.
Before the growth the whole state was backwards and cultureless. What out of staters fail to realize is that you don't need 5 acres or more to be a Montanan. You also need to realize that you probably do live in a subdivision. ( anything less than 160 acres is a subdivision in Montana ) The negative part of growth has been the mass amounts of land used by the number of homes that actually occupy them. The endless road systems that have been put in to service them as well as individual wells and septic systems. If you have ever been to Jackson Hole and looked over the valley from the top of Rendevous Bowl you can close one eye and cover up the whole village with your pinky finger and the town of Jackson with your thumb. The rest of the land is open space. It used to be you could see views like this all over Montana as well. I was up St Mary's last weekend and the bitterroot is all houses, no open space, all houses. I would personally rather see people move in and live on smaller pieces of ground I don't care how many people come here as long as we stop this notion of living like magnets and getting as far away from each other as possible and using up every inch of available land. The bottom line is people like you move here to get away from such things as pollution, traffic, crowds etc and in the long run, you create the pollution by utilizing an anequated septic that you probably never service, by living several miles from the nearest services and needing to drive several miles on impervious surfaces to get anywhere, polluting both the ground water and the air and increasing the traffic. And for those whom live in the Bitterroot, we then send at least 20,000 cars down the highway to Missoula per day increasing both our traffic problems and creating a nightmare for Missoulians on Reserve street because we have nowhere else to shop. A 5 acre piece of land with a family any livestock and or a dog is too small to farm or ranch, breaks up viewsheds, as well as decreases wildlife corridors throughout the area. 400 homes on 5 acres is 2,000 acres of wasteland where 400 homes on 600 acres saves 1200 acres of land from development, leaves farmable sized land, retains wildlife corridors, decreases impervious surfaces, utilizes a state of the art sewage treatment facility that is cleaner than a city sewer upon release, can incorporate service within to decrease traffic, and preserves the view shed for the rest of us. There is also a notion that you need to drive a really big truck and also own a suburban as well if you are going to be a real cowboy. when actually this too creates more pollution and breaks up the roads faster so we need to use even more fossil fuels than we would if people would just drive normal cars, my favorite bumper sticker of all time read: "Real Montanans don't need four wheel drive"
The bottom line is the bigger the lots the faster an area becomes developed and therefore suburban, the more closely knit we build our housing needs, the more open space and less pollution we create for the entire community. Look at the Bitterroot for example, it's probably one of the nations biggest per square mile of land suburbs around. Sure some people still have pigs and junked cars in their yard giving it a rural twang, but the people who think it's rural don't know what rural is and need to pull their heads out of their a-doubles and stop being so selfish or the whole state will look this bad.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:44 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,557,179 times
Reputation: 15493
Question So there's the argument for density

Ah, somone who is for high density housing so we can look like LA or SF. That's great, 8 houses per acre stretching for miles that's what I want to see.
If you build high density everywhere then what will be the difference between here and any other city? Selfish to want some space between neighbors? I don't know if that's the case but if it is wouldn't that make the people with 100 acres of fallow land really selfish? How about Ted Turner? And as for traffic, it sounds like you are all for light rail and mass transportation tearing up the landscape am I wrong? So if someone wants something like PRIVACY that they can't get where they were they are the problem...... As for being backwards and cultureless before growth I am sure there are plenty here who would find that remark insulting to say the least. I don't think they were backwards or cultureless, maybe backwards to people from other places but I think they got by on what they needed to and didn't really care about the rest. It worked for them.
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Old 06-30-2007, 07:11 PM
 
15 posts, read 47,568 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimj View Post
Ah, somone who is for high density housing so we can look like LA or SF. That's great, 8 houses per acre stretching for miles that's what I want to see.
If you build high density everywhere then what will be the difference between here and any other city? Selfish to want some space between neighbors? I don't know if that's the case but if it is wouldn't that make the people with 100 acres of fallow land really selfish? How about Ted Turner? And as for traffic, it sounds like you are all for light rail and mass transportation tearing up the landscape am I wrong? So if someone wants something like PRIVACY that they can't get where they were they are the problem...... As for being backwards and cultureless before growth I am sure there are plenty here who would find that remark insulting to say the least. I don't think they were backwards or cultureless, maybe backwards to people from other places but I think they got by on what they needed to and didn't really care about the rest. It worked for them.
First off, 8 homes per acre is nowhere near the density of LA and SF, secondly the benefit of density is that it doesn't stretch for miles and miles, it leaves miles and miles of land undeveloped. Also, given the total population of our entire state is less than a million it would take quite the act of god to turn this into LA or SF ( Especially since we lose 30,000 native montanans between the ages of 18-35 every year due to the economy )Thirdly prior to the boom, most montana towns were developed between 4 and 16 dwelling units per acre and that is why we were different from everywhere else because we had mile after mile of undeveloped land and unobstructed scenery. It wasn't more than 10 years ago you could drive from Whitefish to Darby and see distinct urban growth areas and then huge expanses of land with no homes or development for miles now you see a house every 240 feet or so the whole way, what is so special about that?? As for light rail and transit that is not what I said, I said it would be novel if people could live closer to services so they wouldn't have to drive so damn much and we could minimize our impervious surfaces. In addition that would also do more for our troops than putting a yellow magnet on your gas tank. I would probably support light rail over commuting in a Hummer or some other gas guzzling, air poluting monster though. As for "them" being offended, I am one of them. As for space around one another, it's one thing to have a ranch or farm and quite another to have several dozen ranchettes instead. Ranchettes are a huge waste of land in my opinion, very few people occupied them when I was a kid, you either ranched or farmed and had several hundred acres or you lived in town, which is why we were so pristine 10 years ago. It has been deeply troubling to see all these places get divided into ranchettes, the ranchettes go on for miles and miles, not the higher density development. I truly wish we could turn back the clock and redevelop with more open space left intact, but I think so many people here now were not here 20 years ago to see and understand the beauty of conserving land in that way.
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Old 06-30-2007, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Commonwealth Of Virginia
624 posts, read 1,033,272 times
Reputation: 288
Default Makes sense to me

What lewisia rediviva expounded on kinda made some sense to me. I live in a rural area in Va. , I am seeing open farm land similar to what LR mentioned being broken up. Some one will built a home on 5 acre lot,immediately preventing access to the farmland behind that home.

Now they are talking about building a Wally World about 9 miles from my home in a rural area. I am beginning to think Vermont is the only state with any guts .................... everyone succumbing to $$$$$$$$$$
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