Montana relocation: resentment toward newcomers (Kalispell, Polson: debt, condo, travel)

[Timberwolf232]

Montana Starbucks and Jack in the box??? No thanks. Thank God for our unibomber types.. FIRE IN THE HOLE!!

[rickers]

We should all wear grey hooded sweatshirts and dark sunglasses and live in windowless shacks near Lincoln ! That way when someone does something they won't know who to come after !!! Just joking !!!

[Stephan_K]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

I know this goes both ways.. It's nice to watch value go up when you own, and it's nice to watch it come down when you don't. Not so fun the other way. A little stability would be nice for a change. I live in the first house I've ever owned still and am just thankful to have it.

Purchasing property is like buying stock. No different. Everyone expects appreciation. People in W MT are very fortunate to have theirs appreciate so well. Most people dream of investments that good. I don't believe that anything will make it depreciate drastic either anytime in the future, not even this housing crunch. Some stocks/property just doesn't loose value that much in bad times. The high prices are there to stay for the most part I think.

What everyone needs to realize is that the world is a dynamic place and it always will be. Some places are more dynamic than other and at different times. If you do not want change or growth there is a simple solution, don't hack up your property and sell it to people that are going to develop it ! Or put heavy deed restrictions on it when you do hack it up ! That will pretty much take care of growth. If majority was against growth and change in the first place, it wouldn't happen. That must not be the case.

Just because your area becomes in demand and property value increases does not mean that property tax increases as well. Sure it happens, under completely different circumstances than what MT has ever experienced.

For the hell of it, I'd like to here what some of your property investment and tax bills were over the last 10 years. Heres my numbers.

17 acres (half wooded), 2200 sq ft century house in NE Ohio

1998, purchase price $132K, yearly property tax ~$975, property value $135K

2005 after $171K of improvements over the years, investment total $303K, yearly property tax (with assessments) ~$1150, property value ~$365K

2007 same $303K investment after an "emergency" tax reassessment due to population decrease, yearly property tax ~$2450, property value ~$255K

The way I experienced it, the increase in my property value (nearly 3x) never directly affected the property tax much I was paying for years. What did affect it was the decrease in population in our area ! Once tax payers left the area, taxes went through the roof and property value went in the toilet. And then the housing market tanked adding insult to injury !!!! Ain't worth squat right now considering what I got in it.

Anyone have numbers to offer over the last 10 years? I bet they ain't as bad as mine..........

[Timberwolf232]

I feel your pain, even though I could sell and make a bit right now, the money made wouldn't touch another property (that I could afford the mortgage payments on in my area) without increasing my payment by $800 per month or more... Now prices are finally starting to fall so in time I'll be in the same boat as you if the values keep going down, but as this is my first owned property to me I feel it's better to get something back VS. nothing when I was renting.. Mind you I live in a small home. on a way smaller lot than your 17 acres. (1350 Sq feet living space if you count the garage I built on after the mortgage) So don't think that we have some kind of money plant going...

I'm no economist, just a working stiff trying to keep a roof over my families head and trying to stay happy!

[jimj]

Timber, what the prices you're going to see falling is the $350k and up prices. Under that is still expected from most people and below $250k are still selling well in most areas and holding in price. Below $180k sell in a snap relative to the rest of the market and I'm guessing will always hold their price. As for Starbucks, we got one, don't know why as there are several local chains that make better coffee imo. As for Jack in the box, if they'd take out burger king and replace it with Jack I'd dance for joy, or better yet a carls jr instead of wendys.
I do find it interesting that they're putting in things like Dolce' Villa, a foo foo ice cream shop. I wonder where they think they're trying to steer us with all these "upscale" shops?

[rickers]

I've never paid more than $50k for a property. If I had to I would just go back to being a liveboard on a modest 35 to 40 foot bluewater, single-handleable sloop !
(If my wife would put up with boat life again !)
Governments get greedy and towns die because of overtaxing. Who knows where this cycle we're in will take us ? We may even end up like the old Soviet Union, Broke and broken up !

[Timberwolf232]

A house boat would be cool. I don't know how long I could do it, but I've always wanted to learn to sail. For now I'll stick with my old 19' I/O from '82.

I hope we don't end up like the USSR, but the difference between the have's and have not's has sure been growing fast...
Hope it doesn't get that bad, but again worst thing we get to go hunt and fish more, sometimes that doesn't seem like such a bad alternative!!

[rickers]

Sailing is s much fun ! I wouldn't want a houseboat though. I want a 36 to 40 foot masthead rigged sloop that is comfortable for two for live-aboard in a marina.
Of coarse I know all too well that a person can wish in one hand and do a "you know what " in the other, and we all know which hand fills up first !

[Metlakatla]

I am going to go to Montana for awhile this summer to get some sun. I live in Alaska and I can understand the views on outsiders.

[Timberwolf232]

Originally Posted by rickers

Of coarse I know all too well that a person can wish in one hand and do a "you know what " in the other, and we all know which hand fills up first !

Yup! I know that feeling.