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Old 04-24-2008, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Denver
113 posts, read 576,528 times
Reputation: 69

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I also agree with you jenzebel..., even though I live in Colorado, rather than Montana, I've seen the same thing happen here! Its totally disgusting! One of the funniest things I ever saw was a man in a huge foam rubber cowboy hat driving his car with New York license plates on it! Heck, if he wanted to be a cowboy, you'd think the first thing he'd do is to ditch those darn New York license plates! LOL
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,810,559 times
Reputation: 672
Default Do the world a favor, close up a wal mart permanantly

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwumpus View Post
The only way Montana (or any state) could have stayed Montana was to organize its state and local governments to actually prevent Californication.
That means define your way of life and enact rules that preserve it.

Never forget that California itself was Californicated over several successive migration waves since the 1930s (when my family came here) and nobody stopped it, although clearly a great many of them regret that.

How can anyone fight greed? Wal-Mart thrives on greed and cannot be stopped. If you build it, they will come. There are tens of thousands of young families who have only ever known Wal-Mart and tightly packed clone-home communities. It is up to you and your state to show them the better way, by not letting developers build condo complexes without sidewalks (like where I live in California), or that a house to be called a house must be on a large lot, on a large street complete with sidewalks.

I guess what I'm saying is that America is fighting a losing battle, not against Californians but against the human love of money and comfort. You want to preserve your local stores? Then you must somehow force or convince every new person to shop there even if it uncomfortable for them. And most people are like tourists, not travelers. They want a nice comfortable experience, a rigged game. So good luck if there is a Wal-Mart, since they know that and are comfortable with it.

The fact is the majority of people prefer the easy and comfortable way, even if that means forever wrecking cultures and landscapes. If that wasn't true then it could be prevented, but it's not being prevented. And by simply resenting the newcomers for doing the only thing they know, you're only accelerating the progress you lament.

Gosh what a depressing post I just made. Please tell me it isn't true.
That was a good post MrWumpus.

What I don't understand is that if people move here to get away from all the hustle and bustle, why do they rely on the Wal-marts, Home Depots and other big chains still? It's not hard to see that these types of places are ruining things.

I hate Wal-Mart, and refuse to shop there. Makes me sick how they say that they improve communities by providing jobs, when what they do is force good people to sell their businesses and provide a bunch of minimum wage jobs, and treat their employees like sh*#.

All I've seen wal-mart do is put good people out of business, create a huge eyesore, and screw up traffic in places.

It always blows my mind to see people camped out in the parking lot during the summer when there are parks, rivers and lakes in every direction.
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Old 04-25-2008, 11:49 AM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,917,711 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
It always blows my mind to see people camped out in the parking lot during the summer when there are parks, rivers and lakes in every direction.
When we were in Missoula a few weeks ago, the Mullan Rd Walmart had signs posted at their entrances, "Absolutely NO RV Parking and Camping". I couldn't get over that. And there were still RV's and people camping out in the parking lot.

I guess you can take the hillbilly out of the trailer park but you can't take the trailer park out of the hillbilly .
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:01 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,570,254 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
I guess you can take the hillbilly out of the trailer park but you can't take the trailer park out of the hillbilly .
You gotta see Missouri Trailer Trash -- you think you've seen hillbillies at Walmart, you ain't seen nuthin' yet!!

As to shopping at Walmart... I resisted for a long time, but here in SoCal it's gotten to where I can't find what I need at local stores anymore, or the price differential is too great. I know it's tough for small stores to compete, they can't get the bulk discounts that Walmart can, but I've seen a lot of small stores price themselves out of business, too. It doesn't help when those small stores feel like they need a storefront in the mall to compete -- invariably the most expensive rental space in town. Stay in old downtown where the rents are low, keep your prices competitive, and if enough of 'em do it, people just might rediscover the pleasures of the local shop.

Last edited by ElkHunter; 05-02-2008 at 01:43 PM..
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Old 04-25-2008, 04:30 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,917,711 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
You gotta see Missouri Trailer Trash -- you think you've seen hillbillies at Walmart, you ain't seen nuthin' yet!!

As to shopping at Walmart... I resisted for a long time, but here in SoCal it's gotten to where I can't find what I need at local stores anymore, or the price differential is too great. I know it's tough for small stores to compete, they can't get the bulk discounts that Walmart can, but I've seen a lot of small stores price themselves out of business, too. It doesn't help when those small stores feel like they need a storefront in the mall to compete -- invariably the most expensive rental space in town. Stay in old downtown where the rents are low, keep your prices competitive, and if enough of 'em do it, people just might rediscover the pleasures of the local shop.
I'm telling you what, some of those pics are from OHIO not Missouri ! We have trailer parks all over the place that resemble that site. I always thought OH was the trailer park capital of the world. If that page is indeed all Missouri, they are giving OH a run for its money .

Walmart has indeed hurt the small mom and pop shops, but if the little guys are somewhat competitive, I shop them instead of the big box giants if I can. Ya, many of them price themselves right out of business too like you mention. It's sad in a way but such is life.
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Old 04-25-2008, 06:34 PM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
That was a good post MrWumpus.

What I don't understand is that if people move here to get away from all the hustle and bustle, why do they rely on the Wal-marts, Home Depots and other big chains still? It's not hard to see that these types of places are ruining things.

I hate Wal-Mart, and refuse to shop there. Makes me sick how they say that they improve communities by providing jobs, when what they do is force good people to sell their businesses and provide a bunch of minimum wage jobs, and treat their employees like sh*#.

All I've seen wal-mart do is put good people out of business, create a huge eyesore, and screw up traffic in places.

It always blows my mind to see people camped out in the parking lot during the summer when there are parks, rivers and lakes in every direction.
Thank you! I'd love to see ours close down... As for the camping thing at wally world, it's been their policy for many years to allow that, in fact up until recently they encouraged it. It helps the RV'er, they have a trapped audience and free parking lot security. I guess another thing has died with Sam...
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Old 05-01-2008, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,570,254 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
Walmart has indeed hurt the small mom and pop shops, but if the little guys are somewhat competitive, I shop them instead of the big box giants if I can. Ya, many of them price themselves right out of business too like you mention. It's sad in a way but such is life.
Yep... another thing being that if they want to be perceived as local stores, they've got to look like the friendly welcoming local store, not like a cookie-cutter denizen of the shiny new mall. Myself, I never go in malls at all if I've got any alternative... hate 'em plus malls are usually so blasted expensive! *Hated* the new (1980ish) mall at Bozeman!!

The old mall on 10th Ave. South in Great Falls was an odd exception -- it just never felt like a "modern yuppie mall". More like an extension of downtown, so it felt a lot more homey.
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Old 05-01-2008, 08:37 PM
 
Location: NW MT
1,436 posts, read 2,917,711 times
Reputation: 548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Yep... another thing being that if they want to be perceived as local stores, they've got to look like the friendly welcoming local store, not like a cookie-cutter denizen of the shiny new mall. Myself, I never go in malls at all if I've got any alternative... hate 'em plus malls are usually so blasted expensive! *Hated* the new (1980ish) mall at Bozeman!!

The old mall on 10th Ave. South in Great Falls was an odd exception -- it just never felt like a "modern yuppie mall". More like an extension of downtown, so it felt a lot more homey.
I stay away from malls too as much as possible myself because they are so expensive for the most part. I was approached a couple years ago by our local mall here in OH, they wanted me to put a franchise of the fried chicken restaurant I started 12 years ago in the new food court they were putting in the mall. Now mind you, the store I had only did ~$300K in sales a year. Average meal price was ~$6-$7...

They provided me with a contact. First off after you put ~$100K into their unit to do business, they take a big % of gross sales off the top, then you have rent and utilities to deal with which is normal, then you have a list of fees to pay like security fee, advertising fee, building maintenance fee, parking lot fee, mall lighting fee, janitorial fee, separate garbage fee, and about a dozen more I can't remember because they were so ridiculous my mind has chosen to block them out !

From what I have witnessed first hand, it is next to impossible to have decent priced products in malls the way most mall developers set things up unless your business is a large franchised name. The "mall" is the one making all the money with absolutely no risk what so ever, not the small business owner to any degree. We figured the potential for food business from the traffic numbers provided to us, I would have had to charge an average meal price of $21 just to pay the mall for the privilege of being there. My question to the mall was "who the hell is going to pay $21 for a stupid fried chicken dinner that I currently sell for $6 just across town?" And of course I never got an answer.

Now, if a mall developer would ever put together a reasonable priced contract and cater to the down town or off the beaten path mom and pop shops to fill it up without gouging them... then you would have an awesome mall with excellent reason to solicit it. Would blow away all the big box stores with character and probably be somewhat competitive. But greed rarely allows for a mall of this sort.
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Old 05-02-2008, 05:49 AM
 
Location: LEAVING CD
22,952 posts, read 22,455,928 times
Reputation: 15488
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan_K View Post
I stay away from malls too as much as possible myself because they are so expensive for the most part. I was approached a couple years ago by our local mall here in OH, they wanted me to put a franchise of the fried chicken restaurant I started 12 years ago in the new food court they were putting in the mall. Now mind you, the store I had only did ~$300K in sales a year. Average meal price was ~$6-$7...

They provided me with a contact. First off after you put ~$100K into their unit to do business, they take a big % of gross sales off the top, then you have rent and utilities to deal with which is normal, then you have a list of fees to pay like security fee, advertising fee, building maintenance fee, parking lot fee, mall lighting fee, janitorial fee, separate garbage fee, and about a dozen more I can't remember because they were so ridiculous my mind has chosen to block them out !

From what I have witnessed first hand, it is next to impossible to have decent priced products in malls the way most mall developers set things up unless your business is a large franchised name. The "mall" is the one making all the money with absolutely no risk what so ever, not the small business owner to any degree. We figured the potential for food business from the traffic numbers provided to us, I would have had to charge an average meal price of $21 just to pay the mall for the privilege of being there. My question to the mall was "who the hell is going to pay $21 for a stupid fried chicken dinner that I currently sell for $6 just across town?" And of course I never got an answer.

Now, if a mall developer would ever put together a reasonable priced contract and cater to the down town or off the beaten path mom and pop shops to fill it up without gouging them... then you would have an awesome mall with excellent reason to solicit it. Would blow away all the big box stores with character and probably be somewhat competitive. But greed rarely allows for a mall of this sort.
Not to mention you HAVE to be open when they say so or you get fined for every minute you're late. Sick,death in the family etc, no matter... Open on time or get fined.
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Old 05-02-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Low Country South Carolina
113 posts, read 307,624 times
Reputation: 67
Default Just think

Just think how the Indians must have felt

Back in 2001, I spent the summer in Montana. I spent alot of time in Great Falls. 99.9% of the people were wonderful! ( I worked setting up a carneval ) that guy I'll be good.

I'm from the East, We thought about New Yorkers the same way Montanans are thought to think about Californians.

I live by this rule , When in Rome do as the Romans do. I go to a place to enjoy it for what it is. I DO NOT try and change things or say stupid things like " well back in upper but crack we did it this way " I talk about here.

I keep negitivity to myself.
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