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Old 08-14-2008, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,578,132 times
Reputation: 2952

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcountryboy View Post
I wouldn't go to your home community where you're from originally and try to re-make it into a little slice of Montana (although that might not be a bad thing... judging by a few of its representatives up here), don't try and pull that here. Straighten up and fly right or go home (and dont bother coming back).
Hear hear!

Tho maybe they need the message delivered a bit stronger. Who wants to help start a feedlot in Beverly Hills?
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,811,679 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Hear hear!

Tho maybe they need the message delivered a bit stronger. Who wants to help start a feedlot in Beverly Hills?
Heh Heh... From what I hear Beverly Hills is already full of manure! (aka BS)
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Old 08-14-2008, 03:00 PM
 
Location: West Yellowstone, MT
239 posts, read 609,164 times
Reputation: 127
For population 25 years and over in Lancaster, California:
* High school or higher: 78.3%
* Bachelor's degree or higher: 15.8%
* Graduate or professional degree: 5.6%
* Unemployed: 11.2%
* Mean travel time to work: 31.6 minutes
crime index (6 year average, 2001 thru 2006) 382, stable

For population 25 years and over in Bozeman, Montana
* High school or higher: 94.3%
* Bachelor's degree or higher: 49.5%
* Graduate or professional degree: 15.6%
* Unemployed: 9.5%
* Mean travel time to work: 13.9 minutes
crime index (6 year average, 2001 thru 2006) 322, dropping

Now, what was this about Montanans being uneducated?

You are not comparing apples to apples with Bozeman and Lancaster. Bozeman is a college town and Lancaster is rural, with out of work aerospace people and those commuting to Los Angeles because they can not afford property closer to work. That is like comparing La Canada to Fort Benton.
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Old 08-14-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,578,132 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Doer View Post

[section posted by Reziac]
For population 25 years and over in Lancaster, California:
* High school or higher: 78.3%
* Bachelor's degree or higher: 15.8%
* Graduate or professional degree: 5.6%
* Unemployed: 11.2%
* Mean travel time to work: 31.6 minutes
crime index (6 year average, 2001 thru 2006) 382, stable

For population 25 years and over in Bozeman, Montana
* High school or higher: 94.3%
* Bachelor's degree or higher: 49.5%
* Graduate or professional degree: 15.6%
* Unemployed: 9.5%
* Mean travel time to work: 13.9 minutes
crime index (6 year average, 2001 thru 2006) 322, dropping

Now, what was this about Montanans being uneducated?
[end old Reziac post]

You are not comparing apples to apples with Bozeman and Lancaster. Bozeman is a college town and Lancaster is rural, with out of work aerospace people and those commuting to Los Angeles because they can not afford property closer to work. That is like comparing La Canada to Fort Benton.
Speaking as the original poster of that info....

Actually, Lancaster IS a college town (and is no longer rural at all), with not one, but two community colleges, plus the CSU extension in Palmdale, and at least a couple of those for-profit higher-ed outfits like ITT Tech and University of Phoenix. Lancaster is very much like Billings, and not at all like Fort Benton.

But I went through a lot of CA and MT stats, and noticed the trend was the same across the board, even for very small towns in MT and for university hotbeds in CA. Lancaster actually showed better stats than Los Angeles and various other cities in this area. I went with Lancaster vs Bozeman because I've lived in both towns (I'm presently in Lancaster), and because Lancaster's city character is closer to that of Bozeman than the average for California cities (including recent rapid growth, tho Lancaster is 5 times the size it was just 10 years ago, whereas Bozeman is just pushing doubled).
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Oregon woods
16 posts, read 94,950 times
Reputation: 42
It's all population explosion and demand for resources, predicted centuries ago. Education and tech will not bail us out, only stall the inevitable limiting factors to come.

it is important to have regard for others no matter where you are from. Otherwise you become like a lot of Oregonians and out of staters who act like they selfishly hate everyone else. It's too bad too.... to see America loosing itself in this way.
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Old 08-16-2008, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,540 posts, read 12,578,132 times
Reputation: 2952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
Heh Heh... From what I hear Beverly Hills is already full of manure! (aka BS)
Well, whenever I go there, I do wear my hip-waders...
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Old 08-26-2008, 01:18 PM
 
Location: ARIZONA
1 posts, read 1,804 times
Reputation: 10
I think it is very sad that people prejudge others by the area they come from. I was a Real Estate Broker in Colorado and one the most enjoyable part of my career was meeting all the thousands of people I met and sold property to in our area. Buena Vista Colorado is one of the most friendly towns I've ever had the privilege of living in. Just nearly everyone welcomes you. Even as a Real Estate Agent, I wanted our area protected. There were only a few people who came into our area who wanted big change. Most people were just retired people who moved to the mountains to live out their lives in peace and quiet. One of the most majestic areas in the US. Why did I move to Arizona? The altitude is at 8700 feet. When you get to the point where you are strugling to breath, it's time to move on.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:29 PM
 
13 posts, read 24,890 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
This is America, and it doesn't matter if anyone thinks you are "entitled" to make more money than them. (And the answer is that I don't care either way.)


It seems you missed the point of my question. Let me try a different way: If one person works 70 hours and another person works 40 hours, do you take issue with the fact that the person working 70 hours might have a higher income, be able to spend more, and therefore drive prices up because of their contribution to demand? I sure hope you don't see a problem with it. Productivity and increased demand are good things. Those who don't keep up find things tougher, and that is precisely why a free market and competitive economy work so well. If there was no incentive to compete and produce and survive, less would be produced. (Just look to socialist economies - many of which are now gone - to see the result of little or no competitive pressures.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
...because of the growth there are more and more hoops to jump through in order to get anything done. This, of course raises the costs of our services... Some customers understand and others have a hard time with it. Unfortunately the ones that have a harder time are the ranchers, farmers and smaller businesses.. It's these types of customers that have led me to do some training in order to help them manage the burden more affordably.


Yes, growth causes prices to go up and makes it harder for those who are economically stagnant or contracting to survive. This is a good thing, as the alternative is to have no growth or contraction, causing prices to fall, along with standard of living and opportunity. I am shocked that you see a lot of farmers struggling right now... the ones I know are seeing record incomes as the subsidies and commodity prices are generally making them rich.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
How old are your kids? My boy is just pushing 2 and I'd vote for 36 hour days in order to spend more time with him. I can't get enough.. He's learning so fast that I want to be there to see every bit of it. Unfortunately I do have to work, but I'm thankful that I've got enough local business to at least not have to be out of town for weeks on end. I think every moment of his growth is a "formative" time.


My kids are very young too, but I am determined to provide financial stability for my family and have to choose between working very long weeks now and less later, or the other way around. I could do what you do and hope things work out (most people do this - nothing wrong with it), but I have a goal of achieving a "normal" lifetime of work in half of a lifetime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
It's interesting to me to see that the "Co-op" that is supposed to be non profit, and with all it's local goods has to charge more than places that filter their goods through middlemen... Oh wait, the people that sell to the coop have to live here and pay the inflated prices to survive! Seems to me that the cost of living has negated an outfit that started out trying to do some good for the community with quality product at a price they could afford. How do we fix that?


The Co-Op is expensive for just one reason... limiting yourself to local goods means passing up on the efficiencies of big stores and chains, so the cost is higher and the prices must be higher. If you had your way - limiting economic growth - you'd see higher prices for everything, similar to the way it was earlier this century (in real terms, of course).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
It's a tough deal these days. Lots going on and lots of variables that we all are forced to deal with, without knowing you personally I have no idea what you do or how you run your business, and likewise you for me.


It is good that all those variables and challenges are there. Without them, we would be in simpler times with a much lower standard of living. As tough as things may seem, they are *much* easier than in the past, when standards of living were much lower and people had to grapple with much more serious challenges than where to buy the cheapest milk or gas, or how much a new home costs.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:10 AM
 
862 posts, read 812,469 times
Reputation: 149
[quote=Zeeburt;5026159]

It seems you missed the point of my question. Let me try a different way: If one person works 70 hours and another person works 40 hours, do you take issue with the fact that the person working 70 hours might have a higher income, be able to spend more, and therefore drive prices up because of their contribution to demand? I sure hope you don't see a problem with it. Productivity and increased demand are good things. Those who don't keep up find things tougher, and that is precisely why a free market and competitive economy work so well. If there was no incentive to compete and produce and survive, less would be produced. (

The issues most of us have is with those who work hardly at all and pocket millions if not billions from the crony capitalistic system we ACTUALLY live in.The "market" system you describe exists only in Econ 101. Actual capitalism means socialism for the super rich and dog eat dog
for the rest of us.Some like to consume their fellow man-most of us don't.
No socialist societies failed,none has ever existed.Russia et al were Capitalistic societies with central planing whih IS a bad deal. China is
a "communist" one without and they are cleaning our clock.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:11 AM
 
13 posts, read 24,890 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcountryboy View Post
Globalization is un-American, anti-democratic, anti-(American)labor of all flavors (white collar as well as blue)... and simply put is bad for you, bad for me and worse yet, bad for all of OUR children's future (and our nation's sovereignty, in case that matters to you). Global corps are loyal to only one thing: their bottomline. They will sell their souls to the devil to increase their already ungodly profit margins (look at the "American" companies that have recently agreed to work with the Chinese communist gov't in its intelligence activities, at a minimum against its own people...)


Globalization is nothing more than expanding the economy and trade outside of a restricted area to take advantage of the ability to use resources most efficiently. If China produces steel more efficiently than the US (they do) and the US produces heavy construction equipment (we do - Caterpillar) more efficiently, then it benefits both to trade. Your view is called "protectionism" and is based upon the failure to understand that free trade and globalization increase standard of living and produce more jobs for all involved partners. Caterpillar will hire more workers when China is buying their equipment and Chinese companies will hire more people when the US is buying their steel. Profit is a good thing. Losses are a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcountryboy View Post
Scorched-earth profiteering, including smothering Ma & Pop firms & small time/small town competition is NOT progress (except for those that stand to profit of course) and is NOT a good thing not only just for Montana, but for the whole country. Just addressing the recent problem in Montana though because that's OUR immediate home, a place close to our hearts that we care a lot about, and its OUR communities that are being usurped out from under us by a few people with the money and immoral, unethical will to displace locals (we can go screw) to create their own private idyllic mountain retreat &/or a private western 'themed' playground.


If a big store can sell goods at a lower price than a local one and locals choose to spend their money frugally, the big store will likely cause the smaller/local/less efficient one to lose business. This is a good thing. The alternative is to limit an economy to less efficient, more costly goods with less selection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcountryboy View Post
If we don't stand up for our way of life and the future of our communities for all of our families and our children's children, who will? No more... if you fit the description above (this means you, "change the world" Californians et al, or developers from here as well as out of state) then you're not welcome any more.


This is a sickening view, and if you want to talk about un-American... where do you get off saying that Californians or people who develop land for a living are not "welcome". What if they told you that you weren't welcome in "their country" because they've supported you through federal subsidies for many years (Montana's financial performance as a state is horrific... if it weren't for profitable states subsidizing it, it would be in dire straits)? Wouldn't this offend you? It should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcountryboy View Post
I can't speak for everyone of course, just myself, but I don't think I'm alone on this.


Unfortunately, you and your dated views are not restricted to yourself. I run into many people lacking a basic understanding of economics, appreciation of history, and a view that Americans are free and equal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcountryboy View Post
A few new comers making arses of themselves at our expense while failing to support local businesses and our community. Its time to take a stand - you're NOT welcome here. We like our outdoor life, our small-town mentality in our communities (even if they aren't necessarily small towns anymore), we like our local small town stores.


I'm curious - when an "outsider" moves to Montana and purchases goods and services in town (whether or not the company is "locally based", do you think this helps or hurts the standard of living of the shareholders and employees of such companies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTcountryboy View Post
I wouldn't go to your home community where you're from originally and try to re-make it into a little slice of Montana (although that might not be a bad thing... judging by a few of its representatives up here), don't try and pull that here. Straighten up and fly right or go home (and dont bother coming back).


Most areas of the country don't think twice when someone from "out of town" moves nearby. They are usually welcomes and viewed as a fellow American. Apparently, if you had your way, you'd erect a fence around Montana and secede from the union. If this happened and subsidies/support were cut off from the outside, you'd change your mind quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibby19431 View Post
I think it is very sad that people prejudge others by the area they come from. I was a Real Estate Broker in Colorado and one the most enjoyable part of my career was meeting all the thousands of people I met and sold property to in our area.


I agree with you completely, Sibby. Too bad our "countryboy" doesn't share your view... prejudice against people simply because of where they were born is a horrible thing.
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