Montana relocation: resentment toward newcomers (salary, taxes, prices)

[Joe Doer]

Originally Posted by Frankko019

but knowing Letterman has a house there dampens my motivation. I really can't stand him. I guess friction is to be expected w/Cali people and mountain people.

Letterman is from New York City

[CosmicWizard]

GLS wrote:

Tongue-in-cheek funny, but obviously counter to human nature.

I didn't write it as a tongue-in-cheek post. Human nature of course, but nowhere it is written that a local HAS TO get top dollar for their property or sell it to an outsider. As long as the locals complain, b*tch, moan, and gripe about outsiders driving up the price of real estate ( human nature again! ), they could benefit from a good look in the mirror ( also human nature NOT to acknowledge ones own contribution to the problem ). No one MAKES them sell to an outsider. No one MAKES them sell it for top dollar. Both of these actions are CHOICES! Ah, but it is so much easier to complain and blame than to assume responsibility for being part of the problem.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by GLS

Tongue-in-cheek funny, but obviously counter to human nature. However, it does bring up a question I have. Following real estate listings in the Mission Valley over the past two years, I note the seller almost never reduces the listing price. Certainly some sellers just list it trolling for "out-of-staters" and don't have to sell. However, that excuse can't fit everybody, and I can't believe people would endure the inconvenience of listing if they didn't care if it ever sold.

Most real estate guidelines suggest a price decrease if you don't have any serious offers in several months. Can anyone explain if the "price-in-granite" approach is the norm in Montana, or are there some secret rules that I don't understand?

I think I can explain what's going on. What we've seen in the Flathead is while listing prices have stayed up the sales price has fallen some (probably 20% from the high). People here are stubborn and have the attitude "I'm not going to give my house away" so they leave the list price up, it's a psychological thing. What then happens is it sits until they realize it ain't gonna sell or someone walks in and offers them 20k less and they have to get out so they take it.
The other thing that's going on is realtors telling you that you can always go down but never up so if you start high you'll negociate down and maybe down less than if you start out with a lower list price.
The problem I'm seeing my neighbors having is with appraisals and what the banks are using for comps.
They have to use houses sold no more than 90 days prior and they don't care what caused the sale. So if your neighbor sold his house because of a divorce or medical bankruptcy and took a lick'in the bank uses that even if it sold for $10.00.

[GLS]

Originally Posted by jimj

I think I can explain what's going on. What we've seen in the Flathead is while listing prices have stayed up the sales price has fallen some (probably 20% from the high). People here are stubborn and have the attitude "I'm not going to give my house away" so they leave the list price up, it's a psychological thing. What then happens is it sits until they realize it ain't gonna sell or someone walks in and offers them 20k less and they have to get out so they take it.
The other thing that's going on is realtors telling you that you can always go down but never up so if you start high you'll negociate down and maybe down less than if you start out with a lower list price.
The problem I'm seeing my neighbors having is with appraisals and what the banks are using for comps.
They have to use houses sold no more than 90 days prior and they don't care what caused the sale. So if your neighbor sold his house because of a divorce or medical bankruptcy and took a lick'in the bank uses that even if it sold for $10.00.

Thanks Jim. As I suspected, the listing price vs sales price "poker game" is vastly different in Montana than most areas of the country. In California, Ohio, Rhode Island, Nebraska, and Illinois where I have sold houses, the realtor presses you hard to lower the listing price after a few months. Their logic is that if the property isn't getting any action, both buyers and realtors won't look at it. Maybe this is different in the current economy, but realtors commonly show only those proprties where they think they will get a quick or sure sale.

I do agree with your points from a seller's view. Iv'e been there, and didn't like the pressure to "give my house away". On the other hand, I had a house sit on the market in Rhode Island for two years because the listing price was unrealistic.

[CosmicWizard]

GLS wrote:

I do agree with your points from a seller's view. Iv'e been there, and didn't like the pressure to "give my house away". On the other hand, I had a house sit on the market in Rhode Island for two years because the listing price was unrealistic.

For the sake of clarity regarding my earlier posts....As a seller I ALWAYS want to get the highest price that I can ( my human nature greediness! ), and I don't blame anyone, anywhere for doing just that. Those who focus exclusive blame on the outsiders for driving up local prices are not looking at the part played by the local sellers who quite naturally want to sell high. As I stated earlier...higher prices are a two way street, caused in part by the human nature greed of the local seller, and in part by the wealthier outsiders who can afford to pay the higher prices of the greedy ( human nature! ) local sellers.

[GLS]

Originally Posted by CosmicWizard

GLS wrote:

I do agree with your points from a seller's view. Iv'e been there, and didn't like the pressure to "give my house away". On the other hand, I had a house sit on the market in Rhode Island for two years because the listing price was unrealistic.

For the sake of clarity regarding my earlier posts....As a seller I ALWAYS want to get the highest price that I can ( my human nature greediness! ), and I don't blame anyone, anywhere for doing just that. Those who focus exclusive blame on the outsiders for driving up local prices are not looking at the part played by the local sellers who quite naturally want to sell high. As I stated earlier...higher prices are a two way street, caused in part by the human nature greed of the local seller, and in part by the wealthier outsiders who can afford to pay the higher prices of the greedy ( human nature! ) local sellers.

I think you and I share some similar philosophy. As an example, here is an excerpt from my post #24 on this same thread way back on 11/1/07:

"...I purchased the property from another Montanan whose family has a long history in, and is well respected in the community. He purchased it only one year previously as an investment, clearly with the intent of turning it for a profit (which incidentally I have no philosophical problem with because it was his decision). Interestingly enough, he purchased the property from a rancher whose family had been in the valley for several generations. He divided 80 acres into four twenties and sold them as part of a "mini-subdivision". I also just drilled a well and the fees helped the welldriller pay to repair the roof that the summer tornado tore off his barn.

So here is my point. Am I the bad guy because I wanted to experience life in Montana?, or do any of these native Montanans bear any responsibility in your eyes for selling off Montana. I don't try to second guess the rationale behind each Montanan in making their personal decisions to do what they feel is right with their own assets. I also empathize with your desire to maintain a rural lifestyle surrounded by great natural beauty. However, I also don't feel I need to apologize for contributing to the livelihood of the local realtor, or helping the rancher increase his cash reserves.

Here's another perspective. I just received my Montana tax bill. There is a list of levies a mile long for services most of which I do not use. So what! I'm not going to complain that I don't want to pay school taxes because I don't have any children in school. I knew that paying taxes was part of the accountability in purchasing the property. This is just part of being a responsible citizen. At the same time, the taxes I pay help subsidize services for all the Montanans in Ronan. Although this does not merit me an award, you might consider this small contribution before you play "kick-the-newbie"."

I think the above corroborates several of your points. "Outsiders" may buy Montana property, but its' mostly Montanans that sell it.

[CosmicWizard]

GLS wrote:

"Outsiders" may buy Montana property, but its' mostly Montanans that sell it.

Good point! Then they blame outsiders for messing up their paradise, completely forgetting that their arrival messed up paradise for the native americans who certainly didn't get top dollar for their land.

[Timberwolf232]

When a person can't afford to pay their taxes anymore due to the hugely inflated prices, sometimes they can't afford to do anything BUT sell it.

The nest-eggs that some thought would be enough, as humble people, got rolled over so the rich could come and snatch up a lot of what they had.

It's not always about greed.

[CosmicWizard]

Remember, the sellers who gladly accepted the high prices are part of the problem too. No one MADE them take the offer. They chose to accept it for whatever reason, and that's their business. It's not all due to the rich outsiders. If you insist on playing the blame game, remember to blame the local sellers too. Thay are part of the problem. They are the ones ( for whatever reasons ) who are selling Montana to the highest bidders.

[GLS]

Originally Posted by Timberwolf232

When a person can't afford to pay their taxes anymore due to the hugely inflated prices, sometimes they can't afford to do anything BUT sell it.

The nest-eggs that some thought would be enough, as humble people, got rolled over so the rich could come and snatch up a lot of what they had.

It's not always about greed.

Good points, but the devil is in the details, i.e. we could spend a long time trying to define "rich". For example, based upon the new government approach to taxation, they are convinced I'm rich, and I'm in strong disagreement. For me, the definition of rich is a guy who doesn't have to work for a living. Many people moving to Montana may have made a good salary somewhere else or saved over the years, but only a few have multimillion dollar yachts like Maddoff.

My point is that most of us got their nest-eggs scrambled.Many "outsiders" have more in common financially with Montanans than you might think........and if we didn't start out as "humble people" we sure are now.