Montana relocation: resentment toward newcomers (Hamilton, Cut Bank: mortgage, environment, lawyer)

[jenzebel]

To Justagoodperson:

I understand that you want to flee California. But the idea that Montana is so much more affordable is not true.

People often fail to look at the whole picture when moving to a new area, and that means considering the ratio of household income you would likely have in Montana to the housing costs. I heard of a study by Montana State University students that discovered, for instance, in Bozeman, 80% of the people that are moving there move out again within 5 years. The reason why? Montana's economy is comparable to a third world country. I also read about a study showing that a higher percentage of Montanans work two jobs than in most any other state and for couples, a higher percentage of both must work to make ends meet.

Much of Montana is that way; wages don't match housing costs. In many areas, the average household income only adds up to 55-65% of what you need to qualify for the median priced home in the area.

Much of the resentment for outsiders comes from the fact that native Montanan's can't afford to buy a house here anymore, like their parents did. Plus some of us have seen our elders forced out of their homes through increased property taxes, brought about by people moving in and paying incredibly high prices for their piece of Montana, thus forcing up everyone's assessment values.

So many people think Montana is going to be a panacea for them and find after moving here that isn't the case. If you really want to change things, then starting making a stand where you are at, gather together a group of like-minded people and try to change your own home rather than just going on to the next place. Honestly, how long do you think that will last?

[Gulskjegg]

I understand and respect the perspective of a native Montana'n but here is my non-native perspective.

My wife and I live on a meagre VA pension of +/-$40,000USD per year. I am originally from the Philadelphia area and that barely enough for one, let alone two.

We checked out Manchester, New Hampshire, to stay closer to my roots but we were only able to find a ROOM to rent...for $600 a month! After a few months we decided to throw in the towel and head west.

Since were are now in Montana, Cut Bank last year and now Kalispell, we find that we can live like normal people. Cut Bank was hell on earth, mostly due to the locals forcing us out of town due to the above stated reasons. Conversely, Kalispell has a vibrant economy and lots of "outsiders". It HAS been a panacea for us!

We feel VERY welcome here, and we try to respect the people here. For those that would say otherwise, keep in mind I may have "brought my money with me" but remember I earned every penny. Anyone has a problem, I can put them in touch with an Army recruiter. Iraq is lovely this time of year.

Anyhow, I tell my wife all the time "If were going to be stuck in America, this is as good a place as any."

P.S. As far as public schooling in Montana, its a reflection of the general cultural rot in America as a whole. If you are truly serious about your kids, you home school them...period. There is a very large and active home schooling group here in Kalispell.

[Dr.VanNostrum]

i'm probably going to homeschool our children. i can't afford catholic grade school and we will never subject our children to the garbage of the public education system. i just want to make sure they are involved in athletics. does anyone know what eastern montana is like? for instance, miles city? i hope there are less trash and west coast flakes there.

the problem in the west is two-fold: 1) everyone is trying to find happiness by moving around 2) the rich are buying up the nicest places to live.

i wish i could have stayed where i grew up. but the rich drove up the real estate values. so you have to sympathize with locals resentment toward outsiders. especially ones who come in with money. the fact is these towns do not have any solid local economy because the rich want to make all these places into their little vacation spots and put pressure on the politicians to stop any exploitation of the natural resources of the state. this only provides low paying service industry jobs. not everyone wants or should go to college.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by jenzebel

To Justagoodperson:

I understand that you want to flee California. But the idea that Montana is so much more affordable is not true.

People often fail to look at the whole picture when moving to a new area, and that means considering the ratio of household income you would likely have in Montana to the housing costs. I heard of a study by Montana State University students that discovered, for instance, in Bozeman, 80% of the people that are moving there move out again within 5 years. The reason why? Montana's economy is comparable to a third world country. I also read about a study showing that a higher percentage of Montanans work two jobs than in most any other state and for couples, a higher percentage of both must work to make ends meet.

This may be true but in many other states especially CA both parents MUST work to have food and housing unless they land a real good job. My brother clears 70k a year and his wife still has to work. Also, there is a study and statistics to match whatever theory anyone happens to hold. I agree that people fail to look at the whole picture no matter what they do from moving to working to buying a house, that doesn't mean they will fail, it's just the way most people are.

Much of Montana is that way; wages don't match housing costs. In many areas, the average household income only adds up to 55-65% of what you need to qualify for the median priced home in the area.

In some areas this is probably true, but things are that way everywhere in the U.S. Think about Beverly Hills CA or San Francisco or Buckhead GA or [insert town in any state].

Much of the resentment for outsiders comes from the fact that native Montanan's can't afford to buy a house here anymore, like their parents did. Plus some of us have seen our elders forced out of their homes through increased property taxes, brought about by people moving in and paying incredibly high prices for their piece of Montana, thus forcing up everyone's assessment values.

Resentment or jelousy? I think there is a fine line between the two and one may lead to the other. My parents couldn't have afforded the house I now have and unless my son becomes educated beyond high school and works hard he won't either. This used to be a place where people could get out of high school or drop out and go to work and do ok for themselves. That is not the case anymore ANYWHERE since we have become a world economy and educated people are coming here from all over the world. My parents and grandparents did something that we as generation don't do anymore, they scrimped and saved money to get what they wanted and it took time. They weren't out buying $1000 rifles,$500 bows,$3000 atv's and $3000 snowmobiles or taking 2 weeks off from work to go on a hunting trip. They made do and sacraficed things to get that house or car.
We as a generation have decided that we want what we want NOW, instant gratification and our childeren aren't much better. They are bombarded daily with media that tells them they have to have this or that NOW to be cool,accepted or whatever and are told by schools and society in general that you only have to exist to be great and a success, you don't need to acomplish anything but breathing air. Work? Forget about it unless they can make 100k a year and be CEO right out of high school.

So many people think Montana is going to be a panacea for them and find after moving here that isn't the case. If you really want to change things, then starting making a stand where you are at, gather together a group of like-minded people and try to change your own home rather than just going on to the next place. Honestly, how long do you think that will last?

I agree, some people do come here thinking it will solve all their problems and then find out it doesn't but that's the beauty of america, you're free to move wherever and whenever you want.
As for making a stand, this argument has been beaten to death. It won't work there and it hasn't and won't work here. There is no way to make any kind of meaningful stand to stop what is happening because there are too few people doing it. Nobody will ever convince enough people to stop making money on real estate as long as there is money to be made or convince employers that they have to give people alot more money and this will continue as long as there is an economy.

[tuffy]

I have an opportunity to work in IHS for a couple of years. I am very interested in moving to Montana--but I am honestly wary of discrimination-- especially since two of my children are adopted from China. Plus one of my kids was born with a cleft lip and palate, although repaired, she does look *different*. Our family is Caucasian. The things I would tolerate for myself are different than what I would want my kids to have to deal with. Not that kids are perfect where we currently live--but Asian kids are COMMON. Mixed families also common. Any thoughts about Asians in this part of MT would be appreciated. I very much would enjoy experiencing another culture--hence my interest in working for the Blackfeet Nation.

[jimj]

We live relatively close to West Glacier and our good friends adopeted a child from China. I have yet to hear anyone say anything to or about the girl execpt to talk to her like you would any other child. We do have asians here, mostly Cambodian or Thai but there is one Chinese family in Columbia Falls. As for the cleft palate, there are several kids here with differing physical problems relating to appearance (including one child who was shot in the face hunting) and I have never heard about any comments made to them in fact they seem to be treated no different than anyone else. I can't speak to East Glacier or Browning except to say it's a different world for newcomers there.
Hope this helps.

[jenzebel]

jimj,

I have a suspicion I might know a little about you. You came to the Flathead from California and bought some land, did a little speculating, a little developing and people weren't too happy about it. I remember now.

So your views are very biased toward development. You don't really have an idea about the previous history and culture of the Flathead, you and others like you saw an opportunity to make money and decided the h**l with the locals. I can't really be surprised, there so many of you anymore, so willing to just destroy an area.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by jenzebel

jimj,

I have a suspicion I might know a little about you. You came to the Flathead from California and bought some land, did a little speculating, a little developing and people weren't too happy about it. I remember now.

So your views are very biased toward development. You don't really have an idea about the previous history and culture of the Flathead, you and others like you saw an opportunity to make money and decided the h**l with the locals. I can't really be surprised, there so many of you anymore, so willing to just destroy an area.

Not quite correct, while I did come here it was from the south to begin with and rented until I found a house but I did grow up in CA. Since then I've been in and out of this state to other states a few times. Not a speculator,developer,certainly not a realtor and the only developement I've done is on one (1) house. Never owned more that 2 acres (current) so there is no way people could be unhappy much less even know who I am.
I am not for or against developement, I take it on a case by case basis. I don't like to run around screaming all developement is bad becasue that is not true and you sound like a radical nut doing that, just as not all developement is good. As for speculation. everybody who buys realestate is a speculator. No one buys a house expecting it will go down in value since eventually it will be sold.

[bigskydreaming]

I'm making the move in less than two months!

For those who don't like it:

I can't wait to get there!

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Originally Posted by bigskydreaming

I'm making the move in less than two months!

For those who don't like it:

I can't wait to get there!

Well good for you...

Oh, and by the way?

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