Wondering where the best place to live in MT is... (good)

[organick]

Just a side note, not sure that trying to recruit marines in missoula will be the most successful thing. It's really liberal and full of college kids. Just my 2 cents Montana is the last best place to live my friend

[Montana Griz]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

Hello Montana Griz,

Thank you for your feedback.You're welcome I would like the OP to have as much information prior to making a decision as possible. They have to live with it for a couple years even if they don't like where they are.

I used the term "Roughly" and did not mention the exact elevation for Butte because I was being lazy this morning and didn't want to look them up for publication.
It is a writers perrogative to use a shading of words to obfuscate facts. (Just look at a newspaper to confirm that statement).

I like your wording, "ursas arctos horriblius", covers all basis. It's my understanding that in reality, they are all Grizzlys....the name that's tacked on them is a matter of where they live, what they eat and what color they happen to be.

Lewis and Clark named them "Ursas Horribilus" the Horrible Bear after several tried to eat them, but todays PC crowd started calling them "ursas arctos" a couple years ago. Bull pucky. They are still a horrible bear to cross.

I have crossed paths with several, but have never had the license to legally take a grizzly. Never had problems with them outside of a couple killing calves on the ranch each spring.

I have taken some "Ursas Americanus" and am currently pursuing a "Felis concolor " that killed one of my brothers horses and a "canis lupis" because they have really hurt the herds of "Cervus canadensis".
Good luck on taking the "kity cat". I've never had the opportunity to get one. However, 18 years ago -at age 60- I was very fortunate to harvest a "ursus arctos middendorffi" on Kodiak.....the thrill of a lifetime!! (mid November, a 4 hr stalk in snow squals with 30 knot wind gusts at 1340 feet -- started the stalk at sea level.... Waited (7) years for my name to come to the top of a guide's "cancelled hunt list". I felt kinda sorry for the guy that lost his 50% deposit, but I'd never been able to afford it any other way.....as it was, I got a 3 year home improvement loan to handle th remaining cost.
My screen name comes from the fact that since I was a little kid, a scar on my left temple caused a small tuft of hair in to grow in silver, not because I am succesful hunting Grizzly.

In the group I ran with as a kid, nicknames were better than real names. I didn't come from the oceanside so I didn't like "whitetip", ( a shark), so I was always "Silvertip" or "Bear" from my build and personality. (short legs with a large belly and I like to hibernate through the winter) .

I would assume most of the Grizzly varients on this board are football fans, but honestly, I have never seen a University of Montana game in my life.

I've been told the city of Helena has a pretty significant problem with too many WT Deer inside the city limits? I imagine the Body Shop guys kinda like that situation. eh? Good luck to you and CARPE DIEM!!!

[MTSilvertip]

Montana Griz,
It is Mule Deer that are taking over in Helena, not white tail. I don't blame them as there are a lot of wolves and cougars in the surrounding hills.
Inside city limits you have shelter, lots of green feed in the yards, (dry brown grass outside the city) and most importantly, no predators.
Cars don't usually chase you up onto the lawns.

Congratulations on your Kodiak!

That is a hunt I have dreamed of, but there is no way I could afford it.

You are correct that "biologists" are lumping more and more animals into single species.
The Rocky Mountain Elk is very similar genetically to the European Red Stag, they can even interbreed, but in temprament, and apperance as well as other factors, they are very different animals.

The Grizzly is basically the same bear whether it is the Silvertip in Montana, the Barren Ground in Canada, the Alaskan Brown, the Kodiak or even the Polar bear.

I guess it makes for easier bookkeeping to say that all different branches are the same animal.


Back to the original question, I think a Marine can "adapt and overcome" in pretty much any situation. Recruiting in Missoula would be more difficult, but there are a lot of good young people in the area that are still proud to be American and want to serve their country honerably, even in "North Berkley".

A Marine goes where he is ordered to go and dominates the situation to overcome all obsticals.

The Marine in question comes from Colorado, so Butte or Great Falls wouldn't be that much of a change for Him. His lovely Bride will have an adjustment where-ever the new duty station is. BUT, I think she is probably as tough as he is so she will not only survive, but flourish where-ever they are posted.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

You are correct that "biologists" are lumping more and more animals into single species.
The Rocky Mountain Elk is very similar genetically to the European Red Stag, they can even interbreed, but in temprament, and apperance as well as other factors, they are very different animals.

Nowadays it is being done with DNA studies rather than phenotype (physical appearance) since the latter can be deceiving. DNA studies have turned up stuff like that falcons are actually related to parrots, NOT to hawks. "Parallel evolution" often fills similar ecological niches with similar critters, even if they aren't from the same branch of the biological tree, and without DNA studies, it's easy to assume they're related (which is how it was always done, before).

Conversely, a lot of what they used to think were separate species have proved, via DNA studies, to be just "breeds" or subspecies, much like the different breeds of dogs, or dogs vs wolves vs coyotes -- all the same base species, and they can interbreed [defined as genetically able to produce fertile offspring] even tho a Chihuahua doesn't look or act anything like a Great Dane or a wolf! And these variants can be adapted to wildly different conditions (again, much like the different breeds of dogs).

As with dog breeds, certain traits can be exclusive to a particular subspecies, such as the mule deer's four-footed spring (I think it was muleys... been a while since I read the study on it, and I can't find it again offhand). This is apparently a simple recessive gene as it is entirely masked any time muleys crossbreed with related deer. But it's a survival trait in muley country, so in that gene pool there's been powerful selection for it.

I think once the entire biotree has been DNA mapped, there will be a lot changes made in how we categorize a bunch of critters, both that we thought were related but aren't, and that we didn't think were related but are.

[Carolina_Belle92]

Hi, there! I've lived in Missoula area (Bitterroot Valley) since I was six years old, and I absolutely love living in Montana. It's hard not to love it, no matter what part of the state you are in. Here are my opinions and impressions of the cities you listed. I've visited all of them at least a few times (some more than others), and as I've said, I've been in the Missoula area for quite a while.

Billings: The largest city in Montana, but it doesn't have the feeling of a large city at all in terms of culture. I've always found the place pretty unremarkable on a lot of levels. The scenery is nice, but nothing like you'd get in western MT. There are some decent healthcare facilities in town. I feel like education is lacking a bit here, especially compared to Bozeman and Missoula (and even Helena). You'd think that the largest city in the state would be more of a college town, but it feels a lot less intellectual than that and there aren't a lot of resources that are very intellectually stimulating. Most "suburbs" don't feel like suburbs and seem to be pretty poor towns. A lot of industry is in the area, and I personally find that unpleasant, although I don't know how it is for you.

Butte: Oh, Butte. There is SO much community spirit in this town that you can practically smell it. On St. Patrick's day, you can actually smell it. This is probably the closest you're ever going to get to an old mining town in its heyday. I personally prefer Butte as a place to visit instead of a place to live. The public schools are pretty mediocre and the town feels rather grimy. Also, you *do* have all the mining in the area (and it's not really outside the city; it's right there in your front yard) that can be unattractive. I haven't heard anything about the economy in the city, but my impression is that it's not great.

Bozeman: I'm going to give Bozeman two thumbs up, and I'm a Griz fan! About this... the UM/MSU rivalry is pretty intense, and game days are always a big deal (although football seems to be less of a deal here than in Missoula). Bozeman is a town with a classically Montana NIMBY attitude and some of the most intelligent people in the state. MSU is a great asset to the town, and the public schools are pretty darn good. Bozeman High School's speech team used to trounce us (and we were the best in the state!) when we competed with them. The town is clean, easy to navigate, and the scenery is fantastic. People are friendly and easygoing. It's safe here, and I always said that if I could have picked any city in Montana to live in, it would've been Bozeman.

Great Falls: My first impression of Great Falls was, "Ew. Are you kidding?" Then when I went back a couple of years later, it was, "Oh, wow. This place is awesome!" The city is a really civic-minded place with a lot of activities and recreational opportunities for residents. Great scenery, central location, and a growing economy (from what I hear). The Great Falls Symphony is pretty good for a small-town orchestra, and I've seen some of the most famous classical musicians there -- Itzhak Perlman, Yo-Yo Ma, etc. There is a lot of culture here for a small city, and the people I know from Great Falls love living there.

Kalispell: The smallest of the cities you've listed, I believe. It's a pretty area, but darn expensive if you want to be anywhere near the lake. Decent schools, decent medical facilities, but it could be difficult to recruit here because it doesn't have that many people. Kalispell definitely fits your "beautiful" criterion, but as for affordable, I'm not sure what to tell you. The surrounding areas are actually more expensive: Bigfork, Whitefish, etc. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of cultural activity here, but that could change, since the Flathead area is growing quickly.

Missoula: My dear Missoula. I've grown up 30 miles away from Missoula, and now that I'm away in college, I miss it dearly. It easily fits the description of "beautiful," and it is probably one of the most beautiful places in the state. However, the economy is not fantastic and housing isn't exactly dirt-cheap. You might be able to find some bargains in the surrounding towns; Frenchtown, Florence, Bonner, Alberton, Stevensville, etc. Like an above poster said, it is definitely the most liberal area in Montana and you may have some issues recruiting, but I don't think it would be that much of a problem. The surrounding areas are all pretty darn conservative/libertarian, although with a constant stream of Californians moving in, that can easily change! Having UM in the town adds a bit of a dirty-hippie-college-student element, but it also adds some great theatre and sporting events. Note: Griz football is a religion here. People bleed maroon and silver. Missoula seems to be the most "cultured" of the major cities in Montana, and I've always loved living in the area (even as a Republican myself!).

Good luck! I hope I've helped.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Carolina_Belle92

[Billings] A lot of industry is in the area, and I personally find that unpleasant, although I don't know how it is for you.

Don't knock industry. Ask anyone who comes from America's rust belt whether they'd rather have their industry back. Without it, all that's left are low-wage service and menial labor jobs -- and at that point locals get demoted to second-class citizens as they make a marginal living by kowtowing to tourists and rich out-of-staters. And next time you complain about the cheap made-in-China crap that's all you can buy anymore, remember we used to have those industries right here at home.

So... If Billings still has an industrial base, that's something to cheer about, even if it ain't always pretty to look at.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by MTSilvertip

Back to the original question, I think a Marine can "adapt and overcome" in pretty much any situation. Recruiting in Missoula would be more difficult, but there are a lot of good young people in the area that are still proud to be American and want to serve their country honerably, even in "North Berkley".

And our Marine would be a mighty good influence on North Berkeley while he's at it

[Montana Griz]

Hey Thermolinas...........

Just for kicks, I read your post to my brother-in-law, here in the B. R. Valley yesterday when I paid a visit to him and his wife (my sister). I figured you might appreciate the opinion of "an old jarhead".

(2nd Marine Division--1943/1944-- New Georgia; Tarawa; Saipan & Tinian)
Was a "BAR Man"...... His quote: "It was a million dollar experience that he wouldn't give a dime to do it again!!"

He told me to pass on to you the following:

Billings: too big and conjested; not close enough to the mountains.
Butte: too cold; and too many irishmen in town....He is 100% Scotch!....he he
Bozeman: too many "transplants that didn't work for the $$$ they inherited!
Great Falls: too much wind, cold and snow.
Kalispell: Great location if you like Lake Fishing.
Missoula: Nice town; and good access to a variety of activities depending on your interests.

Remember now.....these thoughts have come from a "guy who has done it all".

No offense is to be implied in any respect to anyone or any city!!!.

Good Luck.
GRIZ

P.S. SIDE BAR NOTE TO: MTSilverTip................. I also read him the post about: 'Men wearing eye-liner". You can imagine what his response was>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unprintable.

[MTSilvertip]

Hi MontanaGriz,

When I was a young cub, there was a gentleman who lived just down the road a ways. He was kind of a mentor to me, and an endless source of amusement with his stories and antics. (I received my first rifle from him, and I still have it).

He was a Salty old Seadog, a Chief Petty Officer when he retired from the Navy. A product of the old "Rocks and Shoals" Navy, he was tougher than a nickel steak.
He was on the Lexington at Coral Sea and Midway, and served on several other bird farms in his career. Korean War vet as well.

He was probably the subconsious reason I chose the Navy when I joined.

From knowing that great old veteran, I am sure I know exactly what your brother in law's response was.

[themolinas]

Thanks for all the advise! With all your information it'll make our decision a little easier. Hopefully we'll get stationed somewhere in MT but it's the military so you go where they send you...so let's all cross our fingers! And I know where ever they send us we will "adapt and overcome" so I'm not too worried about that

Right now my Marine is in Ft Benning, GA going through Jump School...so once he gets back we'll narrow down our search and maybe even come out and visit a few of these places in person

Thanks again for everything!!!