Montana has a deadly culture... (Helena, East Helena: insurance, crimes, houses)

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by organick

I completely agree that we all have a right to be safe on the roads from drunk driving at that freedom is much more important than any other to do with this issue. But how do we do that??? make a 1st dui offense punishable with months in prison? Perhaps. we do it to non-violent drug offenders all the time so why not??

Non-violent drug offenders are not killing anyone, drunk drivers are.

I don't use drugs, I wouldn't use them even if they were legal. Lord knows I used my share in high school but I gave all that foolishness up when I decided to make something of myself. Do I care if others smoke a little pot? Nope, it doesn't hurt me. Drunk drivers kill or injure a lot of innocent people. I'm all about people being able to do what they want to do just so it doesn't hurt others. This hurts others.

Think about this:

The Carbon County judge was recently arrested for DUI, so were the judges from Ravalli County and Custer County. The commissioner from Flathead County and the one from Beaverhead County were both arrested for DUI. The Flathead probation officer was nailed for DUI not long ago, so was Miss Montana herself!


"Our state culture has been this way for a long time," Rep. Peterson said. "As I grew up in Montana, I saw - just like everyone else - that drinking and driving is accepted. I'm an attorney, and a legislator, and I know many attorneys and legislators who drink too much and then go out and drive drunk, because that's what the culture is here."


He likes the idea of offenders installing an "interlock," a device that locks a car's ignition until the driver blows into an alcohol-sensitive tube. And he likes the idea of making it illegal to loan your car to someone convicted of DUI. He's also interested in stamping driver's licenses with a DUI alert, so those convicted cannot buy alcohol. And he'd consider making it a crime to refuse a breath test.


Disclaimer-- I do enjoy getting drunk and riding my horse once in a while. This last summer my wife found me out in the pasture in my boxers and flip-flops riding the horse bareback and singing some indian song. I don't even know any indian songs.

[jayhawkfan96]

For all those who say they shouldn't make severe laws for DUI, how may phone calls have you gotten at three in the morning telling you that someone close to you was dead? I've had way too many in my life. Drinking and driving, especially when the blood-alcohol level is twice the legal limit, is the same as shooting a gun into a crowd. It should be punished the same. Unfortunately, as long as the lawmakers are some of the worst offenders, there won't be any of those measures any time soon.

[AQHA]

I mentioned the fatal DUI accident above. I was reading the paper this morning and it seems the drunk driver who caused this accident has been in another drunk driving accident. I was not aware of this when I started this thread yesterday. His timing could not have been better.


"An East Helena man facing two felony counts of vehicular homicide while under the influence of alcohol was jailed over the weekend on another drunken driving charge.
Travis E. Fuqua, 32, was arrested on DUI charges late Saturday night in Boulder after he crashed his girlfriend's car into a ditch...

Fuqua faces the separate felony charges for his alleged role in a deadly traffic crash June 24 on U.S. Highway 12 near East Helena in which Karl and Charmon Pentecost died.

The Pentecosts died when the motorcycle they were riding collided head-on with Fuqua's pickup truck east of East Helena. Fuqua was attempting to make a left turn onto Spokane Creek Road and failed to see the westbound motorcycle.

The Pentecosts had two boys, 2 and 6."

[Reziac]

It comes down to personal responsibility. If you go out and shoot people, or go driving on a public road while drunk, you failed at personal responsibility and should pay accordingly. I don't have a problem with that. (I don't see how riding your horse, or your car for that matter, on your own property while drunk hurts anyone but possibly YOU.)

What I do have a problem with are draconian laws meant to "prevent" such crimes. One has been floated that would require breathalyzer interlocks on all cars -- this is no different than requiring trigger locks on all guns. People are either responsible enough to use something that has inherent dangers (cars, guns) or they're not. You can't legislate responsibility; all you can do is punish those who failed at it, after the deed is done (punishing before the deed is the essense of thoughtcrime).

Rational people will say "Doing that is dumb, look at the consequences!" Irrational people won't, or think the rules don't apply to them, and punishing the rational people won't change that. And unless we lock everyone in Safety Bubbles, sometimes the irrational people are going to hurt the rational people.

BTW a good friend of mine was killed in a head-on collision, 18-wheeler came around a bend in the wrong lane and made tinfoil of her little car. So yes, I know what it's like to get that call.

[Mathguy]

Many rural states have similar problems. It stems from the fact that many people cannot walk to the party\bar etc and given distances involved often just drive their own vehicles instead. (and there is no public transport)

Additionally, long distances and highways generally mean that when the accident occurs it is at higher speeds and that medical help can take a while to arrive.

This goes on despite rather stiff penalties...and huge risks...like felony vehicular manslaughter charges.

1/2 of all fatal vehicle accidents are drug\alchohol related....I think there are about 7-8k total car accident deaths a year in the US.

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

1/2 of all fatal vehicle accidents are drug\alchohol related....I think there are about 7-8k total car accident deaths a year in the US.

According to my research there are 13,000 Americans killed by drunk drivers each year.

Originally Posted by AQHA

13,000 Americans are killed each year in alcohol-related crashes

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by AQHA

According to my research there are 13,000 Americans killed by drunk drivers each year.

The figure as usually reported is somewhat inflated -- because if the driver was sober, but a passenger was drunk, it still counts as a "drunk driving accident". It also includes drunk pedestrians, which if I recall correctly, account for about 1/3rd of the fatal-accident "drunk driving" stats.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

Many rural states have similar problems. It stems from the fact that many people cannot walk to the party\bar etc and given distances involved often just drive their own vehicles instead. (and there is no public transport)

Additionally, long distances and highways generally mean that when the accident occurs it is at higher speeds and that medical help can take a while to arrive.

Good points.

As to cultural aspects -- remember MT is where people say "I can do it myself" rather than "I need mommy to do it for me". This means people make their own mistakes, rather than only making gov't-sanctioned mistakes. It's part of the trade-off for personal freedom -- since some people just can't handle being both free and responsible. Myself, I accept that tradeoff and its associated risks, since it's impossible to be perfectly safe and still retain personal freedoms.

[rickers]

Originally Posted by AQHA

We were one of the very last states to even make open containers unlawful. In boats open containers are still legal here.

Montana only banned the driver of the vehicle from having an open container (being drunk while driving a car or a boat is of coarse illegal). If you read the law it clearly states that the passengers can still have open containers as long as the open container is in the immediate control of the passenger, (meaning in his or her hand). It is also unlawful for the operator of a boat to be in possession of an open container, it is only ok for the passengers.

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Good points.

As to cultural aspects -- remember MT is where people say "I can do it myself" rather than "I need mommy to do it for me".

I don't want to live in a socialist country, a country that governs my every move. America is becoming this, Europe already is. I'm glad I grew up in the time I did, where a person supported himself and his family with the sweat of his own brow. I don't want the government over taxing me so they can support those who are less ambitious than me.

I'm not for big government. I wouldn't even care if the government didn't want to protect us from drunk drivers, but if this is going to be the case they need to allow us to deal with them ourselves. See, they can't have laws that protect the drunks from us, but no laws protecting us from the drunks. Savvy?