Gun Recommendations? (crime rate, gated, living in)

[mtlogger]

Originally Posted by snowdreamer

My apologies if this topic has been visited before...but just wondering, what kind of pistol or rifle is recommended for protection of person and property? I've never really had reason to have either before, but I'd like to get one or both before they're outlawed. I've also been looking at taking classes through the NRA on how to handle these since I have limited experience and nobody to teach me. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

12 ga pump action shotgun works for me. I carry it mule packing, in the truck and on the atv. Don't like handguns much, too heavy and too much recoil for the caliber I'd need for bears. A shotgun just does a better job.

[MTsam]

Originally Posted by organick

Get it through your head that guns have dangers and stop clinging to this concept that you needs guns to survive.

Nobody is disputing that guns have dangers. But I for one do not "cling to" any concept that I "need" a gun to survive. I am thankful that up to this point in my life I have not had a need for a gun. However...the beauty of this country, so far, is that it's MY CHOICE to decide whether or not I want to have guns and my decision is that I DO. Be glad that at least I'm trying to educate myself!

[elousv]

Another feature of a shotgun is even if you run out of ammo you can use it as a bludgeon.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by elousv

Another feature of a shotgun is even if you run out of ammo you can use it as a bludgeon.

LOL! Yeah, I had that very thought when I was typin' earlier today, but I like my shotgun too much to abuse it like that. So I keep a piece of pipe behind the door too.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by organick

ummm 75% of the country stays safe without guns?

Right. Just like Washington D.C.

'Nuf said.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by organick

Suicide is quite often a spur of the moment decision made under a drug or alcohol induced state. Guns are the easiest and most successful way to kill yourself. I cannot say why other countries have higher rates but have you considered the living conditions in those places? Perhaps the rates of depression are 5 x's higher? All things to consider.

Japan has a generally higher standard of living, yet 3x the suicide rate compared to the U.S. Some tragically poor countries have a very low rate. So "living conditions" doesn't wash as a motivator. Fact is the stats are so small on a per-capita basis as to be meaningless, ie. essentially chance. You could throw darts at the world and probably predict suicide rates just as accurately. The best indicator is probably the degree of stress a society puts on young men to conform and succeed (Japan is among the worst cultures for that), and whether there are alternative outlets for that stress. Tho since the advent of video games, a lot of such stresses have gotten redirected.

The original Usenet suicide FAQ (which I can't find offhand, what's online now is not the right file) points out that guns are really not enough of a sure thing (aim off by a couple degrees and all you do is maim yourself, unsuitable for those with physical disabilities, etc.) and that if you really want to end it all, there are much better, more available, less-chancy methods.

[AQHA]

Originally Posted by organick

...own your guns thats fine but dont try to tell me I am wrong because I dont and I see there is a danger to it.

You're right, there is a danger to guns if they're not treated properly. There's also a danger in not having a gun in a certain situation. It's really about peace of mind.

[organick]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Japan has a generally higher standard of living, yet 3x the suicide rate compared to the U.S. Some tragically poor countries have a very low rate. So "living conditions" doesn't wash as a motivator. Fact is the stats are so small on a per-capita basis as to be meaningless, ie. essentially chance. You could throw darts at the world and probably predict suicide rates just as accurately. The best indicator is probably the degree of stress a society puts on young men to conform and succeed (Japan is among the worst cultures for that), and whether there are alternative outlets for that stress. Tho since the advent of video games, a lot of such stresses have gotten redirected.

The original Usenet suicide FAQ (which I can't find offhand, what's online now is not the right file) points out that guns are really not enough of a sure thing (aim off by a couple degrees and all you do is maim yourself, unsuitable for those with physical disabilities, etc.) and that if you really want to end it all, there are much better, more available, less-chancy methods.

that greatly depends on how one defines standard of living.


Yes if you really want to end it. The majority of suicide attempts however are cries for help.

Anyhow really not the main topic.

[organick]

Originally Posted by snowdreamer

Nobody is disputing that guns have dangers. But I for one do not "cling to" any concept that I "need" a gun to survive. I am thankful that up to this point in my life I have not had a need for a gun. However...the beauty of this country, so far, is that it's MY CHOICE to decide whether or not I want to have guns and my decision is that I DO. Be glad that at least I'm trying to educate myself!

It is your choice and I applaud you becoming educated. Several posts on here do suggest that without owning a gun you are going to fall victim.

[TypicalCalifornian]

Organick I appreciate the observation and opinion "not everyone needs a gun". Actually Dr. Lott, an economist/criminologist has made his own study on the impact on crime of "uncertainty". So using methodology and testing I can not do justice to from memory, a 1% concealed weapon society might result in a 50% reduction in crime, with no other variables. From this idea, one can easily imagine the uncertainty in a criminals mind (see also the Stossel 20/20 video where the perps described their behavior with a prospect of an armed citizen).

So for example my own strategy does not include being armed, in part because it would be a violation of the law, in part because I don't want to find myself tempted to shoot it out not being at this time competent in firearms nor mentally prepared for what I might need to do. I do however have a .38 S&W in the trunk, and the ammo locked in the glove box, with an possible use for a flat tire in a bad part of town, civil insurrection of any sort, or other.

So while I think I am a prudent and careful citizen, I am also a very bad at being a victim and would not even a little hesitate at defending myself. Were you a more experienced reader of the culture you might sense the majority of posters have exactly this mindset.