Retire to Whitehall (for sale, motel, lawyers)

[FlyguyN90086]

Hello all,

I have read, in interest, many posts here the last couple of weeks. Some make Montana sound very un-welcoming. I know this can't all be true, being born and raised on a rural northeast Nebraska. You have your good and bad, hard times and good...My father is a trucker that used to haul cattle a lot in Montana. As for me, I have driven through on a number of occasions.

I am getting ready to close on a lot in Whitehall at the private airport there. Everytime I drove through Montana, I told myself that if there was a place I'd like to live anywhere in the world, and I have seen more than most being active duty Navy (no offense intended), it would be in Montana. So, when I saw this lot, I jumped. I plan on retiring there in seven or so years to begin my "new" life.

I have found quite a bit of highly useful information about Whitehall from this board and from my Dad's rancher connections. I do have one question though...How deep do you have to dig for a well there?

I plan on visiting again in late June. Thank you all for your posts on this board. It has helped me immensely!

Jerry
N90086 @ KRDK

[JoeJoeMan]

Honestly there is a broad spectrum of attitudes held by montanans concerning the recent invasion of the state. In the areas of montana like western MT and the Bo-zone area, I suspect old locals have the strongest attitutes, and why not, they have been greatly affected and in most cases not for the better. Other areas, well I can't speak for, I'll leave that to those who live there.
Attitutes have changed greatly over the years, today many montanans feel threatened at seeing their way of life shrink and their cost of living expand.

But I suspect that most people, like myself, are still very nice, curtious and respectfull of those new comers we meet, even make new friends of them....but there is always that underlying notion ...."Gee I wish the influx would just stop already"
Its a tough situation, when you like people, want to wish them well and help them, (and you do) and understand their wants to find a better place, but at the same time their actions are unknowingly stepping on your way of life and have in so many and direct ways (ie. cost of housing) imposed finacial hardship on you.

[FlyguyN90086]

It is the same way here in Nebraska. Actually, I live on the Iowa side of Omaha and my Dad never fails to give me a hard time about it. It is good being stationed at home-Navy in Nebraska, who would have figured? I was up North of Seattle for the first 11 years of my career and will most likely go back. Then again, I can't really control that.

I understand how the prices have gone up. They have everywhere. If you could actually find Carroll, NE, where I grew up, it's the same. Ten years ago you could buy farm ground at $700 an acre-now it is over $3500 for DRY ground. My Dad owns about 240 acres and that's his nest egg.

I know MANY places in the world where there is cheap land. Would I live there, sure, if I had to. Do I really want to? Not in the slightest. I have seen many countries-can't count them all on my fingers and toes almost twice around, some good, some bad, but nothing compares to ours-not one.

I truly believe this...I can see it in my job being a Chief Petty Officer now. The older we get, the crankier and more resistant to change that we are. What worked and went by unnoticed when I was younger, today I scrutinize. Am I going to get worse, probably. The point is that change has been happening since the beginning of time. When we die, that is the world saying it is time for a change. It is how we accept it and go on. What is happening there in Montana is happening everywhere, or it will happen in time. All that matters is what is the plan for dealing with it? Maybe get elected to office and pass some building code to keep out the mansions. That's just one thing that comes to mind. Why get a big house anyway? It has to be cleaned somehow...Hey, that's creating jobs...I'm not cleaning 5000 SQ FT...Seriously, when it comes to a day where everyone in the world does not want to live in America, then Montana will stop growing. It's like in Dances With Wolves, he didn't want to tell Kicking Bear that there will be more white people coming than they could deal with, right?

Really, I just want to live simply as I did in my youth. To be able to hear nothing at night as I am sitting under the stars is my cup of tea. I am tired of corporate America, and yes, the Navy is one big industrial corporation, albeit with weapons.

Just my .02

Jerry

[jenzebel]

Actually, I used to be helpful really helpful...years ago when I lived in one of the areas that is now "Californicated". I never thought nor did many others that it would happen here because we thought Montana was far enough from everywhere else. After all, people had been trickling into the state for years and it hadn't changed much. Then the flood came.

But when you have to abandon your lifelong home because people come in, change the culture of an area and make it too expensive to live there...there is just something wrong with that.

Old folks on fixed incomes had to sell their homes and move to another part of the state or to a cheaper state because their property appreciated so much they could no longer afford the taxes on a fixed income. Of course they were angry!

Then people move in and try to keep us from accessing streams and hunting areas. Some of the new private landowners try to get the stream access laws changed to keep people from using the rivers and streams below the high water mark. They want to claim private property to the middle of the waterway.

And it continues today...here is the link to an article from the Montana Standard about one battle--A landowner in the Ruby Valley who has been at the center of a legal battle over stream access from county bridges has counter sued Madison County and a sportsmen’s group, claiming there is no right to get to streams from county bridges...Kennedy, a millionaire media mogul from Atlanta.... (http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2007/03/21/state_top/20070321_state_top.txt - broken link)

There isn't much we can do now except sit back and watch it all go away. It is like watching your best friend get beat up by some bully over and over again, and you are just a geeky little kid that can't do anything about it.

Funny, you mention that part in Dances with Wolves--it always makes me cry.

[FlyguyN90086]

I read that article. Kind of sad that we all have to go to these extremes. I hate lawyers...despise is more the word...They do everything to ruin aviation too.

I do have a solution to that. What did some of these posts say as I have been reading...Something of a billion dollar surplus. Why doesn't Montana take that surplus and have the state buy the land. Then it's public. Use the "Californians" (that term is unfair, as that article suggested) tax money against them. Hmmm....

Here's another. Exempt or put a cap on all FULL TIME residents of Montana from state taxes that have been there 10+ years.

I know, that's pretty right-wing thinking.

I still want to find out how deep the wells are in the Whitehall area.

Thanks,
Jerry

PS I have a solution for lawyers too....

[jenzebel]

Originally Posted by FlyguyN90086

....Why doesn't Montana take that surplus and have the state buy the land. Then it's public....

That would be great Jerry except these guys move in and buy up all the land they can along the rivers so they can either have their own private fishing grounds or charge wealthy out-of-staters to access the rivers. They aren't willing to sell any access rights.

Originally Posted by FlyguyN90086

I still want to find out how deep the wells are in the Whitehall area.

Try the Montana Groundwater Information Center

Originally Posted by FlyguyN90086

PS I have a solution for lawyers too....

I can guess it is close to my solution for them

[FlyguyN90086]

Thanks for the info.

To me, the state buying land is the easiest solution. I can go online and see the thousand plus acre ranches up for sale...

Jerry

[FlyguyN90086]

My family and I just vacationed to Whitehall. I am going to maintain that it is my type of area. Yeah, I like the dry heat and the scenery, but for the most part, it is the only airport lot in the country (I have been searching for a couple of years) that is affordable with my military income, that is not in the hot, humid Southeast. When I retire, I will have that income to support whatever job I find there. This is a compromise for me and my wife. She likes being able to fish everyday, and if I could afford it, I would fly everyday. Expenses keep that to once a week right now, and I have my own plane I restored myself.

For the curious people looking to move to Montana from out of state, these are my observations. If you want something "affordable", you'll have to look at a smaller community. Whitehall is perfect for me-my hometown in NE has 240 people. When I was growing up, I made my own entertainment-not a problem. The first people I met were the agent and a gentleman that lives on the airport. They were both very skeptical about new comers. Words like Boze-Angeles and McMansion came out. Truly, I am and always have been in agreement with what they said. It is not an anger complex issue, I don't think. I think everyone is pretty scared to lose what they have. I think I would/will be too, because, say, if you go to a poor country and all of the sudden so much money comes in, it creates two classes of society instead of three. It is happening in the middle east right now.

Yes, there is middle class, but fewer than even I am used to. There are two types of homes in the countryside outside of town-single wide trailer houses and houses that look like the ones I was around in Washington state-the mansions. To clarify, anything over 3000 sq ft is a mansion. There are exceptions for those wanting to take me apart. Who wants to clean them anyway? Why have such a big house? Do not get me wrong, I feel that way about everywhere. If someone has that much money, give back to the community or start a business. I'd retire and create things to keep me busy. They are all show-offs anyway. 1200 sq ft suits me fine. My house here is 1500 if you count the finished basement-1099 up top.

Montanans are friendly, and I can vouche for that. The clerk in the motel I stayed at thanked me for not chewing her for screwing up on the room charge-simple mistake. Her quote-"at least you're a nice man." I also felt for the tour guide at Lewis and Clark Caverns-there were idiots giving her a hard time-she was young and very pretty, I must say-but, I found out she could hold her own. She was tough, but very friendly. The idiots stayed idiots, though, and kind of ruined my tour-I wasn't there to joke around, I was there to learn. From their accents, they were from that big city in the Northeast.

I did enjoy it a lot up there. I love the outdoors.

One other thing, any town that has horseshoe pits lined up down main street is my type of place.

Just my observations.

[wyliecoyot]

Flyguy - you might be interested in this Moderator cut: advertisement, please use DM - in whitehall = house with hangar and runway !!

Wylie