Montana is not special (Billings, Missoula: estate, house, rent)

[jenzebel]

RaleighNativeGirl

Your assessment of what happened to the Flathead is totally accurate. I know people there with Master's degrees and supposedly good jobs that are barely scraping by because of rent/housing costs and those with the $8-$10/hr. jobs (which seems to be a large portion of the workforce) have it even worse.

[dan k]

I left wisconsin when my wife left me ,i went to school in arizona .I met a special woman here and we are waiting until her oldest graduates in 2008 to move out of here.
My 2 children live in montana and i go to see them every year for 2 weeks and will be going july 21-aug 4 this year, i love montana and always have.
You want to talk about bad places to live ,dont ever move to arizona, there are so many illegals here that the police cant even keep up sending them back.I can even watch the news anymore, every night there are murders, rapes,and drop houses being busted with 20-100 illegals in the house.I am a warehouse supervisor here and thank god i got a job when i did because most places are requiing me to speak spanish,i say no way last time i checked this is america and we speak english here not spanish ,why should i have to learn their language, maybe they should learn mine.Talk about discrimination!
The last place i lived in wisconsin was a town of 200 people and my sons kindergarten class was 5 , i loved it and cant wait to get back to that kind of life, no walmarts , starbucks or having to speak someone elses language to get a job that im overqualified for.
Hope you find the life you are looking for, if you find it before i do give me a heads-up please.
thanks
dan

[JoeJoeMan]

Am I, Are we, being to pesimistic ? Or is American really going to the sh*t hole in a hand basket ?

So someone, anyone please tell me why it's better today then it was yesterday,
> lots of cheap crap from china - not really seeing how that improves my life.
> medicine - I must admit is alot better, albeit alot more expensive.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Am I, Are we, being to pesimistic ? Or is American really going to the sh*t hole in a hand basket ?

So someone, anyone please tell me why it's better today then it was yesterday,
> lots of cheap crap from china - not really seeing how that improves my life.
> medicine - I must admit is alot better, albeit alot more expensive.

No, your not being pessimistic at all. Things (save a few minor ones) are NOT better than yesterday. I think as a people we were much happier even as short as 20-30 years ago. There was some faith in the government, that they wouldn't outright sell you down the river, there was faith in your company that if you worked hard you would move up and have a decent retirement and they wouldn't outsource your job. I could go on but it is depressing.....

[JoeJoeMan]

Jeepers creepers jimj, I hate to think that me of all people is not being unnecessarily over pestimistic.....is that what happens when you get old and start seeing things for what they really are, life without the rose-colored glass....

I do beleive though that our generation, the hippy generation, realing scwanderd a great oppurtunity for this country and it's children, I guess that's what we get for our arrogance, how we thought we knew so much more than our parents - the truely great generation.
With all the advances our generation saw in technology and medicine, health care, the notions of a clean enviroment, and all prosperity we've had, at the same time we just let the whole thing go to hell in a hand basket.
Our population was stablized, as americans, but we had to keep letting all the 3rd worlders in for cheap labor and our once beautiful cites turned into human sewers, chasing out the good people....I saw it happening first hand when I was younger.
We threw away the whole notion of family, god and country, in favor of political correctness, multi-culturalism (the religion of the government) and self indulgence.
I really do feel sorry for our children and what we are leaving them behind for a set of morals and a country.....
It so ironic, isn't it, that big hippy generation was singing "Teach your children well" and all that grap about peace and selflessness..................but did just the opposite, I look back and when taken as a whole and in context, I see my generation as just a bunch of arrogant, self indulgent hippocrates.
And I don't see that as being pessimistic, rather just seeing life for what it is, or at this point in my life, seeing it (life) for what it 'was'
And now they all wanna run away somewhere in an attempt to recapture paradise lost, where they see Montana as the place......but as this threads title says "Montana is not special"......and it ain't, they're all just running away from the problems they created elsewhere and bring them here, not that we didn't already have our own similar problems......nope Montana might have been something special at one time, one time not all the long ago....but it ain't anything special any more......so don't let the scenery fool you.

[njkate]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeMan

Hi Westernstar,

Yea it seems that the only way you can fight it, is to well do what I'm doing - let people know that they are screwing up things by coming here. And I don't feel that that is rude - no more so than telling people there are to many people climbling in the rowboat and they should find another empty one, for the sake and happiness of us all.
And thanks for verify my thoughts about what has happened to Missoula, it has turned into a real zoo....and still they are flocking in here, western MT, Bozemant, etc......I like the way some people say "oh yea come to Great Falls"......you people in Great Falls ought to be really carefull and count your blessing while you got'em, and don't think it can't happen there, that's what we thought over here in the 80's, I could have never imagined in my wildest dreams that western montana would turn into this....it's probably more unimaginable than it is depressing.

You guys are mild compared to some comments on the Tennesee threads

[jimj]

JoeJoe, who woulda thunk that we would agree on something? I think where the hippy generation lost it was they forgot that you had to work hard to survive.The general idea that was around at that time was a good one in principal,peace,love,don't worship material things but it then digressed into what I think is lazyness like old rome when people sat around and ate grapes and got fat while the lower classes slaved away for them.
We became a semi-welfare state instead of taking care of ourselves. Instead of teaching our kids that even a ditch digger is honorable if he does an honest days work we shunned those jobs and allowed workers to be brought in. When the corporate world realized that they had a socially acceptable new slave market that could save them millions we were on our way to today.

We are slowly(?) moving to a socialist country now because it is much easier to let the government do for you instead of doing for yourself. What's happening now is like making a turkey fat dumb and happy just before slaughter. It will be an interesting ride to see where we go from here!

[JoeJoeMan]

jimj wrote

JoeJoe, who woulda thunk that we would agree on something?

yea, who wooda' thunk, but I do agree with you......I'd add a few thoughts though, and that is I think the orginal hippy notions of peace/love/etc formed in the 60s, I beleive were never based in sincerity, that's why they never lasted......Those ideas were used as a tool to bash the establishment, parents and government, any kind of authority.....for it was that authority that the hippies resented....because it was against them pursuiing there notions of self indulgence (ie sex,drugs & rock & roll).......so the hippie kids like any little kid in an effort to get their way.....tries to wear don't and discredit the parents in an effort to get their way by pointing out the sins of the parent....it's a simple tacktic, little kids use it all the time and don't even really realize they are doing it, but they know it works.......so of course all that 60 idealism never came to forwishing, it was never based in sincerity.
Granted there are still some left over hippies doing the peace think, but they're basically hippies that never grew up and are still out to bash and form of authority. I must say everyone that I now that is into that stuff is still blowing pot, even at their age....some people never grow up, and most of the hippie generation never grew up...........and don't want to do real work, but enough for now.

[dangerousdan]

I think that while there is a direct relationship between influx of population and development the latter isn't necessarily the natural consequence of the former. The problem here isn't people moving in from out of state, it's the development -- which includes the collective problem of people's obsession with "land rights" and the libertarian bent of letting people do whatever they want with their land. I've personally seen numerous instances where locals are outraged by the mere suggestion that they can't sell to any old developer and that not just any uncontrolled delopment can be built. Frequently, the same people turn around and express outrage at all the new people around -- who may live in one of those developments.

If you don't like sprawling subdivisions and Wal-Mart, get involved in your local planning board and community organizations seeking to preserve the character and environment of the area. I think it's undeniable that many, if not most, of the developers and commissioners are locals and not the newcomers complained of.

The more generic argument about "newcomers" destroying Montana's culture etc. is pretty interesting considering the history of our country and the region. It's basically a local form of xenophobia -- that's totally ridiculous considering this land was never "ours" until we forcibly took it. I know this point has been made but it bears repeating. There's always someone who has been here longer and don't like your kind.

[JoeJoeMan]

Dangourdan............I'd have to agree with you, it is some/alot/more-or-less/whatever, of the locals sell off to the developers and the like, at the same time though it is the demand being placed on housing with all the people moving in, if people weren't moving in then there would be no market for all that crap they are building....
Getting involved in local government and the like is beating a dead horse, you'd have a better chance at telling the local baseball team how to play the game, if you get my point....When it comes to the local governments, in the bigger towns like Missoula, it's the foxes watching the hen house, they're all in bed together with each other, and the public will get plenty of lip service and they'll even do all those useless growth plans, then just continue on doing exactly as they want to do........I could go on but why bother.....
My way of figthing it, is simply to tell people what I think of them for what they are doing, and boy do I take a lot of heat for that around here, they look for any slightest little thing to get me booted off the forum....far as I can tell they just make up some off it.................
If I can't do nothing else in this world to save Montana from the mess they are turning it into - I can tell 'em all what I think of them, and try as I might I just can't find nice words to do it with, because I didn't think there is a nice way to describe the raping of a person, place or thing and I pretty much have zero tollerance for that kind of behavior.But I guess one would argue, and some do on here, that one person's rape is another man's profit and pleasure.