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Old 07-17-2010, 09:34 PM
 
93 posts, read 232,840 times
Reputation: 72

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Thanks Cumminszhere

This quote was taken directly from the article:

"A few streets and intersections received most of the attention during the meeting, with residents describing them as hot spots for congestion, volume and excessive speed. "

I would be a little distrubed by excessive speed in a residential nieghborhood - wouldn't you?

This part sure doesn't sound unreasonable to me. However, I understand your main point and it is very valid. When you move next to a school you're going to get traffic. My next question is why do you bring up California - I bet every state has this sort of thing to a certain extent. Are you picking on California because you blame Californians in your state?

If you do, please remember that many times Californians that have moved out of the Golden State are really not natives, like me, but transplants themselves. So many times people blame Californians but really the person is from another state originally.

I can sense that people in your state are frustrated by the influx from other Americans, I know the feeling. No state has had more immigration than California. However, we are very tolerant of others and I'm sad to read that your state is not.

Final point, I'd be curious if the problems in your state with newcomers are really from native Californians or if California is simply an easy target for you.

Elkhunter - I don't have the time to research your examples so I will take your word for it. However, in the biggest state in the union (California #1 in population) these examples do not seem like an inordinate amount of cases.

I don't mean to upset everybody and I want to be polite, however, some of this California bashing seems a bit contrived - if I'm wrong I apologize, but If the majority are not natives then this is simply unfair.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:55 PM
 
Location: C-U metro
1,365 posts, read 2,725,557 times
Reputation: 1160
Default Ca

Quote:
Originally Posted by 31st State View Post
Thanks Cumminszhere

I don't mean to upset everybody and I want to be polite, however, some of this California bashing seems a bit contrived - if I'm wrong I apologize, but If the majority are not natives then this is simply unfair.
The largest plurality, if not majority, of people living in Montana were born in Montana. It does drive us bonkers when people from CA move to our state and then whine about not having In & Out Burger (good food but you knew this was part of the deal) or Tiffany's or some other swanky chain that caters to the high spending (different from high net worth) individual.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Montana
1,219 posts, read 2,811,890 times
Reputation: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post

That is exactly the crap and attitude that Montana doesn't need.
Very true Elkhunter..

There is a stink similar to the ones you mentioned in our own Three Forks regarding Pogreba field. The city has some building ordinances to restrict building tall structures (over either 40' or 70' I can't remember exactly) around the airport to protect the traffic pattern... (the airport that has been there much longer than the residences that were built up around it) Now the "new" neighbors want to shut down the airport so they can build tall buildings? I don't get it. One of the quotes I remember is a guy saying "I shouldn't have to give up my property rights so "hobby" airplanes can fly around." As a pilot I'd like to B-slap that dude, and I'm sure the ag pilots that fly out of Pogreba would like to as well.

It's happening here too folks, and the more "growth" we encourage the more we are going to end up giving up in the name of "a better place" for out of staters.
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:33 AM
 
160 posts, read 234,413 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by 31st State View Post
Thanks Cumminszhere

This quote was taken directly from the article:

"A few streets and intersections received most of the attention during the meeting, with residents describing them as hot spots for congestion, volume and excessive speed. "

I would be a little distrubed by excessive speed in a residential nieghborhood - wouldn't you?

This part sure doesn't sound unreasonable to me. However, I understand your main point and it is very valid. When you move next to a school you're going to get traffic. My next question is why do you bring up California - I bet every state has this sort of thing to a certain extent. Are you picking on California because you blame Californians in your state?

If you do, please remember that many times Californians that have moved out of the Golden State are really not natives, like me, but transplants themselves. So many times people blame Californians but really the person is from another state originally.

I can sense that people in your state are frustrated by the influx from other Americans, I know the feeling. No state has had more immigration than California. However, we are very tolerant of others and I'm sad to read that your state is not.

Final point, I'd be curious if the problems in your state with newcomers are really from native Californians or if California is simply an easy target for you.

Elkhunter - I don't have the time to research your examples so I will take your word for it. However, in the biggest state in the union (California #1 in population) these examples do not seem like an inordinate amount of cases.

I don't mean to upset everybody and I want to be polite, however, some of this California bashing seems a bit contrived - if I'm wrong I apologize, but If the majority are not natives then this is simply unfair.

31,

I'm not an out-of-state California basher. I have a home in Los Altos and my kids went to the school (Blach) mentioned in the article. The area in question is a quiet residential area. The traffic during school drop off and pick up times does increase dramatically. Any prospective buyer in the neighborhood surely must know the pre-existing condition. The upside to living next to a school is that when school isn't in session you have a park like setting at your disposal. The NIMBY people drive me batty.

And as to why I post here, I have property in the Swan Valley. It's where I will retire and it's where my heart already resides. The formerly great state of California has been dead to me for some time.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:03 AM
 
93 posts, read 232,840 times
Reputation: 72
FlyingCat2k - Nobody likes complainers - I totally understand. And it's a crying shame the Treasure State does not have In-N-Out. I wouldn't leave my glorious Golden State for numerous reasons and one is In-N-Out. The bigger reason in terms of food is our authentic mexican food. I've eaten mexican food in other states and it is not even close. I have four mexican restaurants with 3 miles of my house and they're all delicious. You can always tell is not real mexican food when they also serve hamburgers.

Cuminszhere - Why do you say the Golden State is dead? It looks alive to me. People are out working, enjoying life, going to church, going to the beach. Is it dead because you simply do not like it? That's narcissistic. We have problems (our government spends too much, goofy politicians) but this is not simply a California problem - it is a national problem.

I do think you're an out-of-state basher - you bash California every chance you get and your heart resides elsewhere. One of my hopes is that only people who love California live here. It reminds me of the 14th Amendment; people say they're citizens becuse they are born here - well, that's not good enough you have to love your country and/or state. Montana is your home - go live your dream - California will survive without you; afterall, we're dead.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:16 AM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,259,039 times
Reputation: 4238
With people come congestion, come traffic, come major crashes and 'pile ups' on the freeways. That's everywhere in the world. Not just California. Montana is not on its own planet; you share the world with everyone else. And everyone has a right to move where ever they wish.

I have a simplistic solution for you folk, one that's as simplistic as your attempts to lay blame that "newcomers" are at the root of most of Montana's problems: DON'T SELL THE LAND. If you're all so worried about preserving your anachronistic way of life (as in "I got mine, and that's all that's important") then do something about it.

I'm certain all of you are heavily involved in local politics to limit businesses (aka jobs), sales of existing farm lands, placement of cell-towers, ordinances to limit building heights, etc.

Is there a Level I trauma center in Montana? A world-class neurological center? How about docs who specialize in high-risk pregnancies or in-vitro surgery? Wouldn't you have to go out of state and take advantage of those services in another state? Services which those states' tax-payers support. And that would make you an out of stater, bleeding another state's services dry. Like a vampire.

Seriously, Timber, you don't have to encourage "growth", it's going to happen whether you like it or not. Montana is not immune to migratory population surges any more than any other part of the world. But I sincerely doubt it's as bad as some of you make it out to be.

LOL, love that NIMBY people comment!
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Old 07-19-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
4,893 posts, read 5,773,603 times
Reputation: 8269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post

I'm certain all of you are heavily involved in local politics to limit businesses (aka jobs), sales of existing farm lands, placement of cell-towers, ordinances to limit building heights, etc.

Actually, yes we are heavily involved in trying to get business here, and are thwarted by out of state intrests who have decided that industry such as logging, agriculture and mineral extraction should not be allowed in "their" playground.
We have tried to cater to the greens by building windmills all over the place, but now there are land developers suing to keep the transmission lines from being built.

We have tried manufacturing of all kinds, but those also run into siting issues with non residents suing and requiring environmental assessment after assesment and keeping the permits from being issued even after the state regulatory agencies have signed off on them until the investors withdraw to Wyoming or South Dakota or some other place with a better business attitude.
The Power plant in Great Falls is a great example of this, and now the pipeline from Canada bringing more oil into the US is also being litigated.

Limits on Feedlots because of the smell have had legal action although they have been sited there for many years, and to limit grazing on public ground, wolves and roadless areas are instituted to keep our agricultural industry neutralized or limited.

If the non residents brought jobs and would work with us, nobody would argue, but they don't. Many are field operatives for various eco-kook organizations bent on keeping Montana a backwater park for the rich and shameless.
The only jobs they bring in are for construction to build their McMansions, and service jobs to cater to them when they visit.

Wicked Felina, I don't know where you are from, but it might help if you research the situation in Montana prior to trying to denigrate our concerns with the experiences we have had. I am not picking on you particularly, but the attitude you evidenced in your remarks are the petty shallow thinking that has brought about the resentment evidenced in this forum.

Nobody is restricted from moving here, I would just appreciate it if the locals could get a little respect and not the elitist attude evidenced by some of these posts.
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,293 posts, read 3,330,506 times
Reputation: 4808
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Wicked Felina, {{{{{I don't know where you are from}}}}}*, but it might help if you research the situation in Montana prior to trying to denigrate our concerns with the experiences we have had. I am not picking on you particularly, but the attitude you evidenced in your remarks are the petty shallow thinking that has brought about the resentment evidenced in this forum.

Nobody is restricted from moving here, I would just appreciate it if the locals could get a little respect and not the elitist attude evidenced by some of these posts.
>>>>>..."plus 1" , better yet...."PLUS 10"

.....edit: * Evidentally not very proud of it, but I believe OREGON is where the lady is from......

Last edited by Montana Griz; 07-19-2010 at 04:41 PM.. Reason: additional info
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Old 07-19-2010, 04:48 PM
 
4,628 posts, read 9,259,039 times
Reputation: 4238
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Wicked Felina, I don't know where you are from, but it might help if you research the situation in Montana prior to trying to denigrate our concerns with the experiences we have had. I am not picking on you particularly, but the attitude you evidenced in your remarks are the petty shallow thinking that has brought about the resentment evidenced in this forum.

Nobody is restricted from moving here, I would just appreciate it if the locals could get a little respect and not the elitist attude evidenced by some of these posts.
My issue is rather the same as your's: denigrating people or someone without knowing the full story.

I completely disagree with you about your [general sense of the word] blaming resentful attitudes and snarky comments as some sort of knee-jerk reaction to 'out of staters' who post here, because they are not "knowledgeable." Malarkey. It seems to me to be nothing more than an excuse to vent and bash one particular state or poster.

It's ironic, because I think the resentment evidenced in this forum is petty and shallow. It's like saying, we're only resentful because you made us that way. We will not agree on that point at all.

Please explain to me why you think 'some of these posts' sound elitist to you. Do you truly think that an ordinary working family wanting to move to Montana have any control over the issues you mentioned? How could such an individual or family change your way of life?

Any individual who can control the politics in Montana is certainly not going to be posting here, asking anyone's opinion as to where they should live or if they'll be accepted. And lots or very wealthy Montanans are in the mix, not just out-of-state concerns.

You, personally, may be involved in politics and actually working towards stopping or changing some of the things you're rightfully concerned about. I doubt that everyone who complains on this forum is. JMO.

As we speak, a huge power transmission line (MSTI, I think) is being planned for the Jefferson Valley by Northwestern Energy. It will cut a large swath through farm land and quite literally destroy the natural beauty of the valley. (The very same thing that's happening to MT now happened in California years ago). None of this could've or will happen without the full compliance of the Montana authorities and the political apathy of its citizens. Surely, citizenry can be sold down the river by politicians. I'm curious as to how many of the regular posters on here are involved in doing what they can to stop that?

Why denigrate and insult people who ask only about moving to Montana? A newcomer naturally will not be aware of all of your political concerns.

Again, do you really think that anyone posting on here is individually in a position to stop mega-investors, power companies, etc.? Blame people like Ted Turner, not some ordinary person who is only looking to live in what they may consider a better place. That's all I'm trying to say.

And thank you for a literate response. No worries.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:11 PM
 
Location: the illegal immigrant state
757 posts, read 1,464,346 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by 31st State View Post
Thanks Cumminszhere

I can sense that people in your state are frustrated by the influx from other Americans, I know the feeling. No state has had more immigration than California. However, we are very tolerant of others and I'm sad to read that your state is not. .
Our tolerance and acceptance of newcomers has, ironically, been met with othersí intolerance of us when we are such. Itís a double standard; they feel they have a right to migrate to yours state, but we donít have a right to migrate to theirs. I've never read a rationalization of this presumption though I'm sure I will sooner or later.

I donít like the double standard either, but thatís the way it is and when I move out of CA I won't be surprised by some of the responses I get when people find out I come from the Great Satan of the US and that I've come to "bring CA's problems" to their state as if I single-handedly caused or could recreate CA's problems in their state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 31st State View Post
Final point, I'd be curious if the problems in your state with newcomers are really from native Californians or if California is simply an easy target for you. .
Iíve thought and said the same in a thread I started in this forum and of course everyone ignored it and just went on generic anti-California diatribes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wicked Felina View Post
With people come congestion, come traffic, come major crashes and 'pile ups' on the freeways. That's everywhere in the world. Not just California. Montana is not on its own planet; you share the world with everyone else. And everyone has a right to move where ever they wish.

Seriously, Timber, you don't have to encourage "growth", it's going to happen whether you like it or not. Montana is not immune to migratory population surges any more than any other part of the world. But I sincerely doubt it's as bad as some of you make it out to be.
The fact is that people who canít come to terms with change, resent both it and those who embody it. You could tell a native Montanan that even if it wasnít you who were moving into their area, someone else would and if not now, then later. I doubt that such a simple matter-of-fact appeal to reason would be met with such, though.
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